Hold on tight

[NJAowner]

To answer a few questions shot my way:

1. I have not seen a CS/CA owner contract in years but I would be very surprised if they are not assignable in one form or another.

2. In what I have heard of the deal DAC is getting paid by CA to assume the contracts and the liabilities associated with those aircraft management contracts. The money flow is to DAC from CA, not from DAC to CA.

As an aside the Flex and CA deals look like a great way to acquire owners/customers and increase the critical mass to be more efficient. Numbers I have been told by many in the industry is that 90%-95% of new business is poached from other frax or charter and that the small remainder is "new to private aviation". So "they are not minting too many new owners". Using the old adage that "it is easier to keep a customer than get a new one", this looks like a great way to get a huge block of new owners and get the overall DAC/FO operation to a larger level (if that is where the efficiencies are).

 

[Praetorian]

Good grief, what is the world coming to? Praetorian is, gulp, right. :nuts:

As mentioned earlier, this is whipsaw city.

Depressing I know. But I've been swimming the backstroke for some time now.

Suddenly it's game on.

 

[jetlag7]

We are back to square one in our relationship and it is now up to management to again earn our trust. ( get out the check book! ) (and fast...)

Management doesn't have to "earn back" anything. They just punched you in the nose and stole all of your lunch money.

It's up to YOU to break their kneecaps and take it back!

 

[outerfix]

Before you settle anything with management, your going to need to settle all the pilot integration issues. If you don't believe me ask any USAir/America West pilot.

 

[Fresh Air]

Before you settle anything with management, your going to need to settle all the pilot integration issues. If you don't believe me ask any USAir/America West pilot.

The question of whether there will be a pilot integration at all is still to be answered.

And if there is an integration, only one thing is certain: Neither side will be happy with the outcome.

 

[outerfix]

Your right of course but whats the fun of a message board if we cant speculate? I have read the Options contract and it looks like they would have a pretty good case for single carrier status with FLEX. Your mostly right on your second statement but I'm pretty sure the American pilots are ok with how the TWA integration went.

 

[Propilot77]

Your right of course but whats the fun of a message board if we cant speculate? I have read the Options contract and it looks like they would have a pretty good case for single carrier status with FLEX. Your mostly right on your second statement but I'm pretty sure the American pilots are ok with how the TWA integration went.

How so Flex is not an air carrier and the 135 certificate is completely separately owned and operated.

 

[CL300Pilot]

In the end, it will all come down to what the liars....err I mean lawyers come up with.

 

[AeroBoy]

CitationAir pilots should make sure that their resumes are current. Just sayin'...

 

[Club ORD FO]

Has the FLOPS union had an official response to the Flexjet acquisition?

 

[outerfix]

How so Flex is not an air carrier and the 135 certificate is completely separately owned and operated.

It's not cut and dry and i'm surprised the FAA went along with it in the first place but FLEX has and continues to operate flights under part 135. In addition, Options has in their contract that any fractional flying done under the Directional banner will be operated by Options. It would be up to a judge to decide the outcome but if either FLEX was judged to be an air carrier for the purpose of integration or the Options contract holds up in court, an integration would occur. If Flex was judged not to be an air carrier and the Options contract holds up, an integration might occur outside of the McCaskill-Bond guidelines.

 

[outerfix]

CitationAir pilots should make sure that their resumes are current. Just sayin'...

Sounds like you have some information that we don't have, that must make you feel very important.

 

[Fresh Air]

Has the FLOPS union had an official response to the Flexjet acquisition?

Phone-in meeting with the 1108 this evening. I will be very surprised if we hear anything other than the usual "support your Union, pay your dues, we have no further information at this time". It's not that our Union leadership doesn't try, it's just that management doesn't tell us squat.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I have read the Options contract and it looks like they would have a pretty good case for single carrier status with FLEX.

As it currently stands, they would have ZERO chance of winning a single carrier case.

Four years ago, with the company SUPPORTING the single-carrier petition, the NJI flight attendants WON their case stating NJI and NJA WERE NOT a single carrier. And NJI and NJA were a whole lot closer to one company than Flex and Options.

The accelerated integration debacle that followed was a direct result of the court's decision.

Jussssssss sayin.

 

[Propilot77]

It's not cut and dry and i'm surprised the FAA went along with it in the first place but FLEX has and continues to operate flights under part 135. In addition, Options has in their contract that any fractional flying done under the Directional banner will be operated by Options. It would be up to a judge to decide the outcome but if either FLEX was judged to be an air carrier for the purpose of integration or the Options contract holds up in court, an integration would occur. If Flex was judged not to be an air carrier and the Options contract holds up, an integration might occur outside of the McCaskill-Bond guidelines.

Flexjet does not operate under 135 only 91k. All 135 flights are done under Jet Solutions LLC and we pilots act as agents for them. Completely seperate that's why we have an agency agreement with Jet Solutions LLC.