Hold on tight

[Praetorian]

Can you factually dispute anything I have said?

I could, but I don't think I will on this public message board. That would only help our enemy. Why don't you call a member of your union's leadership and ask them. I'm sure they will be able to put all of this in context for you.

 

[gret]

...very lame and always the excuse...if you going to make noise, back it up...

 

[outerfix]

Praetorian, are you referring to the enemy in your mind? The best you can do is offer in an innuendo of a conspiracy. Very convincing. I'm an army of one and I'm on a quest for information that affects my career, I'm not sure what your agenda is.

 

[jetwash]

Jetwash, we have "heard" that Cessna is going to pay an unbelievable sum to off us and that it's for the whole enchilada. My understanding of the contracts is that Cessna can't just assign someone else to manage the owners planes. Each and every contract would have to be opened up and re-written. Maybe NJA owner can chime in. My opinion is that the entity CitationAir would need to be around to service the contracts and the entire seniority list would transfer with that entity.

Ok that is news to me. I was under the assumption that Ricci was going to "buy" CS instead it looks like he is being given CS.
Again this is good for the combined company because I am sure he will not take any debt with the company and only the good parts that will guarantee a profit if Cessna wants to unload it.

Most of the FO guys I have been talking to were more concerned with the pay and benefits difference rather then the senority list. However, I am sure some of the furloughed guys are looking closely at it. I think that with the order of new aircraft for Flex they will be brought back to it before they come back to FO.

I can see how this can get confusing and messy if you try to combine all 3 pilot groups on one list. I guess we will all find out soon as to what is going to happen.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I think it's interesting that this deal hasn't even been done and the pilot groups are already being played against one another.

Make no mistake, its happening for a reason. If we let them do this to us we will all suffer. It's a very simple equation. The union is out to protect the pilots. The company is out to make money off the pilots.

Anything else you think you know is a distraction from those facts.

Good grief, what is the world coming to? Praetorian is, gulp, right. :nuts:

As mentioned earlier, this is whipsaw city.

 

[NJAowner]

To answer a few questions shot my way:

1. I have not seen a CS/CA owner contract in years but I would be very surprised if they are not assignable in one form or another.

2. In what I have heard of the deal DAC is getting paid by CA to assume the contracts and the liabilities associated with those aircraft management contracts. The money flow is to DAC from CA, not from DAC to CA.

As an aside the Flex and CA deals look like a great way to acquire owners/customers and increase the critical mass to be more efficient. Numbers I have been told by many in the industry is that 90%-95% of new business is poached from other frax or charter and that the small remainder is "new to private aviation". So "they are not minting too many new owners". Using the old adage that "it is easier to keep a customer than get a new one", this looks like a great way to get a huge block of new owners and get the overall DAC/FO operation to a larger level (if that is where the efficiencies are).

 

[Praetorian]

Good grief, what is the world coming to? Praetorian is, gulp, right. :nuts:

As mentioned earlier, this is whipsaw city.

Depressing I know. But I've been swimming the backstroke for some time now.

Suddenly it's game on.

 

[jetlag7]

We are back to square one in our relationship and it is now up to management to again earn our trust. ( get out the check book! ) (and fast...)

Management doesn't have to "earn back" anything. They just punched you in the nose and stole all of your lunch money.

It's up to YOU to break their kneecaps and take it back!

 

[outerfix]

Before you settle anything with management, your going to need to settle all the pilot integration issues. If you don't believe me ask any USAir/America West pilot.

 

[Fresh Air]

Before you settle anything with management, your going to need to settle all the pilot integration issues. If you don't believe me ask any USAir/America West pilot.

The question of whether there will be a pilot integration at all is still to be answered.

And if there is an integration, only one thing is certain: Neither side will be happy with the outcome.