Hi

[speedman]

Go to college not just for the education, but for the experience. I'm in my freshman year at a large state college and it is fun as hell... no way I could have this experience sitting at home. There is more to life than just v-speeds and checklists.

Also .. there is so much more open time in college than in high school, so flying on the side shouldn't be a problem (assuming you got the $).

 

[bobbysamd]

Forum debates

It's not that I'm wanting sympathy for saying this. But I don't think these forums are for me, sorry.

what a fine bunch, you guys are arguing about college while Colby is strapping himself to the shower head with a belt. Come on, Colby hang in there!

Somehow, our friend pilotyip saw your post as an opening to incite another anti-college debate and to again deliver his "college is not necessary" message. Which, in your case, is irresponsible advice to give - not that you solicited it. The college debate and a couple of other issues tend to provoke the more pitched discussions.

Also, the people who engage in these debates - including me - clearly feel very strongly about their positions and advocate them zealously. Then, at some point, someone from left field hurls an insult, personal attack or irrelevant invective at one or more posters with no direct contribution to the discussion. That is when many of these discussions deteriorate.

Hopefully, you got some food for thought out of this discussion. Food for thought is one of the best products of the forums. Right or wrong, misguided or not, it never hurts to share ideas.

 

[troy]

In a way, this forum is part of the education process.

When I said failure, I meant that of the people standing in line for a job, more people get the job that have degrees than w/o. I do not have any stats on that figure, but that is my opinion.

Anyone that would tell someone that college is not worth it has lost it. Especially someone with a masters. It must be worth it, because they went back to school after the undergraduate degree!

You have yet to convince me, what is ONE GOOD thing about NOT getting a degree?

 

[pilotyip]

College is not the answer to all.

I look at my family and my extended family, I see a combination of successful people, both with and with out degrees. I have told the story of my Muffler Shop brother-in-law, I have a nephew in Cad-Cam Graphic design, makes a very good living, another graduate of a trade school. I have another niece, in fact three of them, all college grads, one is a checkout out at the super market because her degree does not translate to a trade, another serves Taco's at a Mexican Restaurant for the same reason. The with a degree from MSU in women's studies, another lives at home and is looking for a job. Are the successful trade school grads failures with limited opportunities because of not having a degree. The answer is obviously no. The crowd on this board is predominately college grads, and most likely recent college grads. They bring a distortion of what they have experienced is correct for everyone. A sort of political correctness if you will. I my option and others have theirs. We could all be correct.

 

[transpac]

. . . but might miss out on opportunities.

Chuck Yeager is an example. Gen. Yeager had only a high school education before he joined the AAF. Yes, he was at the right place at the right time in 1947 as a test pilot at Wright Field, which won him the opportunity to fly the X-1. The Air Force sure provided him great training as a test pilot. However, Chuck Yeager lost out on being one of the first astronauts - because he did not have a college degree. Not that he cared, necessarily, but point made.

Here again, Yip pleads exception. Don't count on being an exception. The odds are against you. Get the degree, and level the playing field.

Chuck Yeager lost out on being an astronaut because an engineering degree (preferably aeronautical engineering) was required. A degree in any other career field would have done him no good.

transpac, BS in useless Poly Sci

 

[Flywrite]

OK guys, new subject:


Colby, have you soloed yet?

Which do you prefer, tailwheel or tricycle gear?

 

[pilotyip]

Good Idea Flyright

I will start a new thread on the merits of the college degree in aviation.

 

[bobbysamd]

Recent grads

The crowd on this board is predominately college grads, and most likely recent college grads. They bring a distortion of what they have experienced is correct for everyone. A sort of political correctness if you will . . .

Now, I will plead exception. I graduated in '73.

Good point raised above. Colby, be sure to tell us when you solo.

 

[CatYaaak]

Yip, why bother with High School?

Colby just giving you options, the Army just like college is not for everyone. It is an individual choice.

Pilotyip, the words you've written here only serve to highlight what is wrong with your advice regarding "options", and "choices". You're forced to mention the Army, which is no suprise since the Army is the only option left to someone who wants to fly in the military with no degree. If Colby ever sets his sights on flying in the Air Force, Navy, or Marine Corps, he'll have to have one. Following your advice, 3 (the ones you conveniently ommitted) out of 4 military doors will remain closed. The same is true for civilian aviation pathways...your advice minimizes his career options, when at his stage of the game advice given should lean towards MAXIMIZING them.

Anyone in this business can find examples of pilots being either great or inept compared to whether they are degreed or not (or ex-military or not, female or not, martian or not...blah blah blah ad infinitum) and try to make a case for rule or exceptions to the same. That's not the point..the point is that if you add up all the possible pilot seats Colby could fill in his future...the kind that pays the bills and allows him a Life outside of flying... your advice (adding up the military, corporate, airline) erases THOUSANDS of chances (potential seats to fill) for him, and minimizes the chances for even more. Given good flying skills, how does having a degree do that? It doesn't..in fact, having a degree does the opposite. That's the reality of the broad, professional aviation world (a few little exception-cocoons don't establish the odds), and unless you're willing to clothe, feed, and support him and his future family yourself in a lifestyle he probably envisions, I find it somewhat irresponsible for you to try and steer him down a Less-options-is-better Pathway.

Besides, college is fun (and sometimes even educational), and the "college vs. flying" debate is at it's foundation a fallacy....they are NOT mutually exclusive activities. I did both at the same time, just like umpteen thousand others, and all it did was maximize my options in a very competitive career field (not a bad thing).

Congrats on beginning your flying Colby, have fun! It it's still what you want to do for a living when you graduate high school, consider a flying University. You can always leave and go to work if you want to, but if you graduate with a degree more doorways will be open to you later on, not only by virtue of the education you receive but also through friends you make there fanning out in the various segments of the industry. It's also easier to just continue an education you've already begun, rather than try to go back to college after becoming enmeshed in the job world (or real world with spouses and kids and mortgages etc). You're in a good position...like you, I began flying at 15, and in my experience going to an aviation University with a PPL and a couple hundred flight hours freed up time (vs. those with no previous experience who consequently had to study) as a freshman to concentrate on other important subjects like girls.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I agree with PY..

Which airline outside the US does care about a college degree? NONE!

Cathay Pacific ? nope
Emirates? nope
Singapore Airlines? nope
Lufthansa? nope
KLM? nope
Air france? nope (not that I care )

They care about you as a person, and they care about your pilot skills.. I'll have over 1500 hours before I turn 23 (most of it ME Turbine PIC) and I don't regret my choices..

I take home more money than a average college grad (based on 15/20 days work a month)

Having said all this, If your goal is a US major airline (NWA, CAL, UAL) then go get your degree..

cheers!

 

[CatYaaak]

You can make a $100/k as a pilot in your mid 30's without a degree. This for many who love to fly airplanes will be a fantastic career. QUOTE]

If you're talking about night-freight living on a 20-minute call-out electronic leash well....I guess some might define that as a "career" . But for many more (and this is just a wild guess) to define something as a "fantastic career" in your mid-30's usually pre-supposes that you have a job that allows something else called a Life. But hey, "to each their own" and "it takes all kinds", which is good otherwise we'd all be applying for the same job.

Oh yeah...and I love to fly airplanes.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Colby,

Don't go away buddy! keep reading this forum (just use some salt while reading from time to time, or budweiser in a few years!)

Goodluck buddy!

FD

 

[CatYaaak]

I agree with PY..

Which airline outside the US does care about a college degree? NONE!

Cathay Pacific ? nope
Emirates? nope
Singapore Airlines? nope
Lufthansa? nope
KLM? nope
Air france? nope (not that I care )

They care about you as a person, and they care about your pilot skills.. I'll have over 1500 hours before I turn 23 (most of it ME Turbine PIC) and I don't regret my choices..

I take home more money than a average college grad (based on 15/20 days work a month)

Having said all this, If your goal is a US major airline (NWA, CAL, UAL) then go get your degree..

cheers!

Well, I assume that Colby is an American so he can reasonably forget about AF, KLM, and Lufthansa. Besides, most Euros don't get college degrees....after high school they backpack through a few neighbouring countries or bar-crawl across a Greek island or two annoying the locals and convince themselves this equates to an "education". But obtaining the JAR licenses requires passing numerous tests far above those required for the FAA, so it's not true they don't value college-level educational skill, lack of degree notwithstanding. Even the degree/college sytems are different, so you are comparing apples to oranges. Besides, most Euro carriers are sucking wind just as badly or worse than the US carriers are, and as a continent Europe offers very limited job opportunities even in the best of times....it's not aviation friendly.

Cathay Pacific? You had better be able to study and be ready for some serious bookwork, or you won't go very far. And although it guarantees nothing, being successful in college helps prepare you for that.

Singapore Airlines? The issue is how much heavy time do you have in order to get hired as an expat.

Emirates "cares about you as a person"?......You need to brush up on what it's like working as an expat for Emirates! Besides, joining the ranks of being some of the lowest-paid 777 captains (and even then forget it unless you're hired as a DEC) doesn't exactly equate to a high standard of living in Dubai.

Despite the current times, pilot opportunities that define overall job market access (for those with degrees or without) and earning power that goes along with them is better here. Colby will have more opportunities (here, and therefore working as an expat for some of those you mentioned if that what he wants) if he has a degree.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Well, I assume that Colby is an American so he can reasonably forget about AF, KLM, and Lufthansa.

L.S.,

This is BS! It is just as hard for Colby to find (get) a job in Europe, as it is to a european individual to get a job in the US (been there, done it)

But obtaining the JAR licenses requires passing numerous tests far above those required for the FAA, so it's not true they don't value college-level educational skill, lack of degree notwithstanding.

This sir, is true.. (been there, done it)

Cathay Pacific? You had better be able to study and be ready for some serious bookwork, or you won't go very far. .

Thanks for your advice sir! (been there, done it) I'm ready for the interview!! (I'm in the pool for a interview at CX at the moment, updating every 2 months till I have about 1500 turbine pic, that's what they told me to do..)

Singapore Airlines? The issue is how much heavy time do you have in order to get hired as an expat.

Indeed, so ya better start flying and building some hours!

Emirates "cares about you as a person"?......You need to brush up on what it's like working as an expat for Emirates! Besides, joining the ranks of being some of the lowest-paid 777 captains (and even then forget it unless you're hired as a DEC) doesn't exactly equate to a high standard of living in Dubai..

True, starting pay is about 4800 USD p/m (tax free) no to bad if you are 25.. Other than that, I agree, a 777 driver (F/O or capt) should get way more..

Despite the current times, pilot opportunities that define overall job market access (for those with degrees or without) and earning power that goes along with them is better here. Colby will have more opportunities (here, and therefore working as an expat for some of those you mentioned if that what he wants) if he has a degree.

There are about 4 more opportunities at the moment in the US..

Friendly regards,
FD

 

[FracCapt]

Colby,

After reading all these arguments which lead nowhere......just remember the most important thing about college....it's not about the degree....it's about the chicks!

 

[Wolf King]

Sorry, folks,

I fear Colby is no longer with us.

 

[Metro752]

I have been doing the whole flightsim and screwing around with girls since about 8th grade/freshman year. The internet is whatever you want it to be to be quite honest. I didn't learn anything on the internet that I didnt hear in school or out playing football, except for what EXACTLY a mustache ride was, i had to google that a couple years ago.

Now i am a ramper and an instrument student and just barely 18, in college, and right now killing time that i dont feel is worth spending studying. College is what you make it. Same with flying, and your life.

Donate money to ATA, so I can have an "Honestly Different Airline," to fly for when i get older!

edit, instead of retracting statements, i stick to girls my age, none younger, and I don't think the majority of kids should have done what I did, but I think maybe i was a little more mature at the time, anywho, i'm rambling about my private life and should probably delete all of this, bye bye

 

[FN FAL]

Hi Colby, welcome to the board. Since I have a court order that says I'm not supposed to be left alone with children, I was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me...Do you like gladiator movies?

All kiding aside, if you like aviation a lot, are in good physical conditioning and enjoy the outdoors, maybe you might think about joining the Navy and shooting for an assignement with Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit One or Two. Unit One is based in Hawaii and Unit Two used to be in Little Creek Naval Amphibase.

Navy divers work around aircraft all the time and you can get benefits that will pay for or at least help you pay for college when you get out.

No matter what anybody tells you, there are more Navy divers looking for pilots, than pilots looking for divers.

 

[FracCapt]

All kiding aside, if you like aviation a lot, are in good physical conditioning and enjoy the outdoors, maybe you might think about joining the Navy and shooting for an assignement with Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit One or Two. Unit One is based in Hawaii and Unit Two used to be in Little Creek Naval Amphibase.

And if not in good physical shape.....apply to the AFA to play football.

http://www.usafa.af.mil/usafa-images/class-2008/acceptance-day/images/DSC_4987.jpg

 

[FN FAL]

I think if the movie "fantasic voyage" comes true...