Hey XJET guys...

[Thebadcat1313]

We have a fragmentation policy. 5 captains and 5 fo's go with each plane if more than 5 planes are transferred. That will help with staffing unless there is some loop hole to keep it from happening.

F. Fragmentation​

12

1. If the Company transfers (by sale, lease or other transaction) five (5) or more​

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aircraft in any twelve (12) consecutive month period to any air carrier(s) owned​

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and/or controlled by SkyWest, Inc. or by any entity that owns and/or controls​

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SkyWest, Inc. (SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies)) then, regardless of whether the​

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transfer is to one or more SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies), beginning with the fifth​

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transferring aircraft, the Company will require the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to​

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which the aircraft are transferred to offer employment to Company pilots on the​

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Pilots’ seniority list in accordance with the following provisions:​

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a. The number of Company pilots who will be offered an opportunity to transfer​

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will be five (5) Captains and five (5) First Officers for each of the transferring​

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aircraft, beginning with the fifth such transferring aircraft, and for each​

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further transferring aircraft.​

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b. The aircraft transfer will be effective on the date that the aircraft is removed​

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from the Company’s certificate and the transfer opportunities will be posted​

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thirty (30) days prior to the aircraft transfer.​

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c. Notwithstanding the other provisions of this paragraph F.1., the fifth or​

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greater transferring aircraft, as described in paragraph F.1., above, will not​

29 ​

be transferred to another SkyWest entity(ies) until the seniority integration​

30 ​

process described in paragraph (h) below is completed.​

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d. The transfer opportunities for the covered transferring aircraft, as defined​

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above in this paragraph F.1, will be posted for no less than fourteen (14)​

33 ​

days, during which time Company pilots may bid on such transfer​

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opportunities. Only Company Captains may bid on the Captain transfer​

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opportunities and only Company First Officers may bid on the First Officer​

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transfer opportunities. The Company will make available a form or​

37 ​

electronic process for such purpose.​

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e. After the closing of the bid period, the Company will offer opportunities to​

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transfer to the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to which the aircraft are transferring,​

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by bidding Captains and First Officers in seniority order, as determined by​

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the Company pilot seniority list.​

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f. The Company will not involuntarily transfer any pilot.​

Section 1 – Recognition and Scope​

FILE: 2007 1120 ASA AgreementSigned​

Copy​

Printed: 11/20/2007 11:55:00 AM​

​

​

4​

1​

g. The lists (Captain and First Officer) of pilots who will be offered​

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opportunities to transfer will be posted by the Company no later than ten​

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(10) days after the close of the bid period.​

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h. The Company pilots who transfer to the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) will be​

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placed on the pilot seniority list of the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to which the​

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aircraft are transferring, pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-​

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Mohawk LPPs, unless such SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilots are​

8 ​

represented by the Association, in which case Association merger policy will​

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​

 

[Skaff]

@ Skaff - I've made my point. I'm not about to rebut your inaccuracies. But please feel free to fight merging our two lists. I know I'll be doing the exact opposite on my side.

And I've made mine. I came to Skywest, not to work at your sister airline, but because I wanted to be here... We were not sister companies when I came to Skywest, and you are not my family. I will never do anything to put another pilot group before my own... are you willing to put my pilot group before your own?

 

[nerjdriver]

And I've made mine. I came to Skywest, not to work at your sister airline, but because I wanted to be here... We were not sister companies when I came to Skywest, and you are not my family. I will never do anything to put another pilot group before my own... are you willing to put my pilot group before your own?

You WANT to be at SkyWest? You are a Fckiking LOSER

 

[Nevets]

I think if you figured out a merger where you could get one list but with restrictions they might go for it. Let's say if you bid into a skywest base you get put on the bottom then moved up based on seniorty when new people transffered in.

My g/f is a skywest captain and like most came from another regional and they don't think it's fair that someone who can't pass the skywest interview can get as windfall into a base people worked hard to get into.

This is all very similar to the airtran vs. southwest thing. I mean look at the way asa got their contract. They negotiated for years without getting anything until skywest bought them then they pretty much exactly what skywest had.

All recent seniority list mergers were restricted from displacements (can only bid into new bases/aircraft if there is a vacancy) by their respective transition and process agreements.

The interview comment is laughable. So you are for putting those who interviewed with SKW and failed be place at the bottom and those who didn't even apply to be integrated? That whole interview crap is ridiculous.

Anyways, my understanding is that SKW pilots were given whatever ASA pilots gained in negotiations that they didn't already have. That's called riding coat tails. But its not as blatant as your current agreement to get XJT/ASA pay rates, 401k matching, and health benefits in their new contract.

Why would Skywest pilots ever want something that would put another airline before their own. SkyWest Airlines was profitable enough to put Inc in a position to buy ASA... SkyWest has continued to be profitable enough to take on a very unprofitable airline, Express Jet, and try to turn a profit with them. Why should we want something that would put you before us when our profits are paying your paychecks. Damn... some of you spikey haired kids have a problem with entitlement.

Good thing Skywest pilots don't have a say in any of this then. Anyways, it was JA's whipsaw of XJT that made us unprofitable with the new CPA. SKW broke it, they are paying for it now. Honestly, you can't see big picture here.

SkyWest Airlines growth is directly proportional to its' profitability. Why the heck would INC want to give the unprofitable airline more flying?

Didn't SKW airlines just lose some DelCon airplanes to Gojet or something? I guess you are right though, cause Gojet is profitable. Anyways, Inc is not very profitable right now because of those unprofitable airlines you talk about.

Why is ExpressJet complaining about growth, anyways? SkyWest has 315 planes, while ExpressJet now has 405.

Skywest has a net gain while ExpressJet has a net loss. Maybe that's why?

Are you speaking of the coat tails that your airline can't afford to pay for because they can't pull a profit or the growth that we can afford because of the profits we make every quarter. If getting your company profitable requires furloughs, that really, really sucks. I'm sincere about that. But, if you re-read my initial post I stand by it. It would be stupid for SkyWest pilots to sign anything that puts Express Jet ahead of SkyWest pilots. Why would I do that? I've been here a long time because I want to be here. I have no interest in working for Express Jet.

Again, SKW caused XJT to lose money on the CAL CPA thanks to JA's whipsaw of the SKW pilot group with XJT's. Inc's profit was less than $1M last quarter last time I checked. The quarter before that was a big loss. What growth with those loses are you talking about? The fact is that we are all in this together. XJT loses money or SKW loses money, Inc loses money. We all work for Inc.

And I've made mine. I came to Skywest, not to work at your sister airline, but because I wanted to be here... We were not sister companies when I came to Skywest, and you are not my family. I will never do anything to put another pilot group before my own... are you willing to put my pilot group before your own?

Like I said, good thing you guys have no say in any of this.

 

[777forever]

All recent seniority list mergers were restricted from displacements (can only bid into new bases/aircraft if there is a vacancy) by their respective transition and process agreements.

The interview comment is laughable. So you are for putting those who interviewed with SKW and failed be place at the bottom and those who didn't even apply to be integrated? That whole interview crap is ridiculous.

Anyways, my understanding is that SKW pilots were given whatever ASA pilots gained in negotiations that they didn't already have. That's called riding coat tails. But its not as blatant as your current agreement to get XJT/ASA pay rates, 401k matching, and health benefits in their new contract.



Good thing Skywest pilots don't have a say in any of this then. Anyways, it was JA's whipsaw of XJT that made us unprofitable with the new CPA. SKW broke it, they are paying for it now. Honestly, you can't see big picture here.



Didn't SKW airlines just lose some DelCon airplanes to Gojet or something? I guess you are right though, cause Gojet is profitable. Anyways, Inc is not very profitable right now because of those unprofitable airlines you talk about.



Skywest has a net gain while ExpressJet has a net loss. Maybe that's why?



Again, SKW caused XJT to lose money on the CAL CPA thanks to JA's whipsaw of the SKW pilot group with XJT's. Inc's profit was less than $1M last quarter last time I checked. The quarter before that was a big loss. What growth with those loses are you talking about? The fact is that we are all in this together. XJT loses money or SKW loses money, Inc loses money. We all work for Inc.



Like I said, good thing you guys have no say in any of this.

How do you know GoJet is profitable? They are not a publicly traded company. Anyhow ASA management has stated that its likely GoJet took the 12 700 contract at a loss to get their foot in the door with Delta. Of course that's just speculation as well but they kinda have a better idea of regional airline economics than we do

 

[COOPERVANE]

Of course that's just speculation as well but they kinda have a better idea of regional airline economics than we do

They meaning ASA MGMT? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah!!!!!..........that's rich.........hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

The ones who dreamed up Surejet?....

 

[mxaviator]

How do you know GoJet is profitable? They are not a publicly traded company. Anyhow ASA management has stated that its likely GoJet took the 12 700 contract at a loss to get their foot in the door with Delta. Of course that's just speculation as well but they kinda have a better idea of regional airline economics than we do

 

[Freebrd]

Of course that's just speculation as well but they kinda have a better idea of regional airline economics than we do

man will you stop posting this senseless crap! you don't have a clue man!

 

[gator_hater]

Scott said that to meet the gojet bid we would be losing about $25/leg. For us that is about $365,000/year for 8 planes and 5 legs/day. He said it would be a loss for us not for them.

Their pilot costs are certainly lower don't know about their overhead and mtc costs. You may be able to assume that overall their costs are similar to our but as a privately held company no one really knows.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I'd be willing to bet their overhead for things such as office space and mgmt salaries is lower as well.

Face it. Mgmt style in ATL is still leftover from the old George and john days. A bunch of rednecks with NO talent, in WAY over their collective heads and no idea how to properly run an airline with more than 80 planes.

Ive heard for YEARS Gojets, Mesa, etc suck, but WE are the new suck with higher cost structure and marginally better pay.....for now.

You can't make fun of Mesa any more. At least they have their Shiite together.

 

[dojetdriver]

I'd be willing to bet their overhead for things such as office space and mgmt salaries is lower as well.

But.....but......there's 80 million dollars a year go be saved due to the synergies of the combined companies!!!!!

You can't make fun of Mesa any more. At least they have their Shiite together.

Everything is relative man.

Bear in mind what it costs the employees of MESA to have their ********************te together. In other words, worse labor relations than we have, crappier work rules, lower pay, furloughed pilots, etc.

 

[Skaff]

Good thing Skywest pilots don't have a say in any of this then. Anyways, it was JA's whipsaw of XJT that made us unprofitable with the new CPA. SKW broke it, they are paying for it now. Honestly, you can't see big picture here.

You say that like you were making a profit before Skywest Inc. bought you. Were you? When was your last profitable quarter?

 

[Skaff]

You WANT to be at SkyWest? You are a Fckiking LOSER

SkyWest provides me a good income and a good quality of life, I make 6 figures. I work for a company that has never furloughed. I work at a company that has not only made a profit every quarter that I've worked here, but they have shared there profits with me and shared with me in performance rewards. My company has continued to grow through new contracts and through purchase of other airlines. I'm in a position where I can have any day, holiday, or birthday off. I can spend time with my kids, and when my kids need me somewhere, I can plan ahead and tell them, "yes, I will be there." I'm in a position where I can be home in my bed somewhere around 20 to 22 nights a month. If I want to work overnights, I do it. If I want to be home, I do it. I have travel benefits available to me on United, Delta, Alaska, and soon US Airways. Continental travel will soon be added into my United travel benefits. If all that makes me a Fckiking LOSER, then so be it. I'd rather be a loser than be miserable.

 

[Pasturepilot]

SkyWest provides me a good income and a good quality of life, I make 6 figures. I work for a company that has never furloughed. I work at a company that has not only made a profit every quarter that I've worked here, but they have shared there profits with me and shared with me in performance rewards.

I'm not trying to flame or point fingers, merely to point out that folks were saying the same things at ASA four years ago, when I came to work here. Since then I've seen 10 months away from flying on furlough, the possibility of a second furlough, and we're looking at YEARS before we can think of profitability.

Things change in this business and us folks with stripes on our shoulders are not the ones making those significant business decisions.

 

[CiFIknow]

You say that like you were making a profit before Skywest Inc. bought you. Were you? When was your last profitable quarter?

Just prior to when SKYW tried to buy XJT the first time and negotiated the rates XJT was forced to agree to in order to retain the CAL CPA.

 

[Skaff]

I'm not trying to flame or point fingers, merely to point out that folks were saying the same things at ASA four years ago, when I came to work here. Since then I've seen 10 months away from flying on furlough, the possibility of a second furlough, and we're looking at YEARS before we can think of profitability.

Things change in this business and us folks with stripes on our shoulders are not the ones making those significant business decisions.

I wasn't talking ********************, the dude said I was a loser for liking my job and my company, I was just sharing some of the things that I appreciate about my company.

 

[dojetdriver]

SkyWest provides me a good income and a good quality of life, I make 6 figures. I work for a company that has never furloughed. I work at a company that has not only made a profit every quarter that I've worked here, but they have shared there profits with me and shared with me in performance rewards.

When SkyWest agreed to fly 700/900 equipment for 200 rates as well as the 18 month pay freeze that actually lasted about double that, did the shared profits make up for that?

 

[aerobat21]

Just prior to when SKYW tried to buy XJT the first time and negotiated the rates XJT was forced to agree to in order to retain the CAL CPA.

XJT has been erased and will never be again. Welcome to Inc. Please perform well or you will be flushed/or will not grow and or phased out. Welcome to business 101.

 

[CiFIknow]

XJT has been erased and will never be again. Welcome to Inc. Please perform well or you will be flushed/or will not grow and or phased out. Welcome to business 101.

I'm not at XJT anymore. You missed the point of my post. Was responding to the pompous post from the SKYW guy asking about XJT's last profitable quarter. SKYW had everything to do with why XJT has been forced to work under an unprofitable CPA. As far as my need to attend business 101... Well, I was smart enough to get out of the regional business....

 

[aerobat21]

Congrats bra!, yea this is a huge mess... (our careers)

 

[crazy8]

I wasn't talking ********************, the dude said I was a loser for liking my job and my company, I was just sharing some of the things that I appreciate about my company.

Then just remember to shout out a big 'THANKS, ASA/XJT PILOTS ROCK!!,' after we sign our next contract, and you guys ride the coattails (again) and add to your 'six-figure salary.'

Usually I just lurk on here, but the arrogant/pompous attitudes of some of these SKW clowns never ceases to amaze me.

 

[aircombat]

Then just remember to shout out a big 'THANKS, ASA/XJT PILOTS ROCK!!,' after we sign our next contract, and you guys ride the coattails (again) and add to your 'six-figure salary.'

Usually I just lurk on here, but the arrogant/pompous attitudes of some of these SKW clowns never ceases to amaze me.

I wouldn't sweat it. If the law of airlines and, what goes around comes around, plays out they will have their day as well.
It's a little sad that even though we have lived through the tragedy that scope relaxation caused, we still don't see the importance of working together. The whipsaw is a double edged blade and will come back to them some day. I doubt it could be disputed that if we were all merged everyone wouldn't have a better contract. So they are being affected by this without even knowing it. All they can hope is that they will be gone before it comes back to them.

 

[Nevets]

You say that like you were making a profit before Skywest Inc. bought you. Were you? When was your last profitable quarter?

No, I say it knowing that XJT was in the midst of restructuring (closing down all unprofitable flying) and renegotiating a CPA with CAL when SKW came in and low balled it using assumptions such as 16% lower pilot compensation to force XJT into signing the SKW CPA or lose ALL the flying by 12 months.

 

[Skaff]

No, I say it knowing that XJT was in the midst of restructuring (closing down all unprofitable flying) and renegotiating a CPA with CAL when SKW came in and low balled it using assumptions such as 16% lower pilot compensation to force XJT into signing the SKW CPA or lose ALL the flying by 12 months.

You got a lot of "facts", got any links to support your facts... 16%? Xjt was its own worst enemy.

 

[Skaff]

Then just remember to shout out a big 'THANKS, ASA/XJT PILOTS ROCK!!,' after we sign our next contract, and you guys ride the coattails (again) and add to your 'six-figure salary.'

Usually I just lurk on here, but the arrogant/pompous attitudes of some of these SKW clowns never ceases to amaze me.

Again? In what way did we ride the coattails before? And I'm not arrogant. Not pompous. I just like my job. I don't believe that you should be willing to put yourself beneath SkyWest pilots, just as I'm not willing to put our pilot group beneath others. You guys talk ******************** as if we owe you something, but we don't. Most of the ASA pilots that I've talked to say that ASA was a better place after SkyWest Inc took charge. Thats not me, that's what I've heard from them. Be pissed off all ya want, I'm gonna grab another beer.

 

[dojetdriver]

Again? In what way did we ride the coattails before?

When ASA got contract 2007, what did SkyWest get?

When the JCBA is finalized, what has been said as far as what SkyWest will get?

And I'm not arrogant. Not pompous.

I'd beg to differ. As well as add that you're slightly ignorant as you don't seem to be fully aware of how SkyWest has been able to achieve the pay rates and "policies" they have.

 

[Nevets]

You got a lot of "facts", got any links to support your facts... 16%? Xjt was its own worst enemy.

Yes, the 16% came out of JA and BH's mouths as they told those of us on that XJT MEC that fateful day, what they had planned for us. I would say CAL was XJT's worse enemy followed very closely by SKW and their whipsaw of us with their pilots. By the way, they also said that SKW pilots were 4% cheaper than ASA, pre-PBS. They equated PBS as a 4% concession.

 

[COOPERVANE]

And ASA has managed to screw up the forecast PBS savings. Our costs with PBS have skyrocketed. No savings at all.

CT blames it all on the vacation provision of PBS. I think it is purely a lack of managerial talent. If they thought surejet was a wise descision, what OTHER unseen descisions are they making that are just as terrible and short sighted?

 

[TDK90]

Skaff does not speak for the majority of skw pilots, most of us have been here less than 5 years, a lot of us on reserve for most of that time. It is a good company but if you're earning 6 figures you're most likely a senior check airman and not at all motivated to improve things for the junior guys. Like I said previously, it's often an us and them attitude here, junior vs senior. You only need to look at the huge overide given to 900 Captains (SLC) to figure out where the cheese goes..

Most guys here see the value of a union and full integration with ASA/XJT, it's hopefully just a matter of time...

 

[nerjdriver]

SkyWest provides me a good income and a good quality of life, I make 6 figures. I work for a company that has never furloughed. I work at a company that has not only made a profit every quarter that I've worked here, but they have shared there profits with me and shared with me in performance rewards. My company has continued to grow through new contracts and through purchase of other airlines. I'm in a position where I can have any day, holiday, or birthday off. I can spend time with my kids, and when my kids need me somewhere, I can plan ahead and tell them, "yes, I will be there." I'm in a position where I can be home in my bed somewhere around 20 to 22 nights a month. If I want to work overnights, I do it. If I want to be home, I do it. I have travel benefits available to me on United, Delta, Alaska, and soon US Airways. Continental travel will soon be added into my United travel benefits. If all that makes me a Fckiking LOSER, then so be it. I'd rather be a loser than be miserable.

Another mighty SkyWest lifer! Loser!