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Hey Westies

  • Thread starter Thread starter MCDU
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Marty - you are the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the East usapa supporters.

You've left all of us high and dry because you can't stomach the fact that a 17 yr guy and a newhire were equals in this merger - they absolutely were regardless of the spin you put on the facts.

When your buddies get sick, run off runways, shoot holes in planes and whatever your fellow miscreants can get yourselves into, you're going to realize what a terrible mistake you've made. When you go to Doug and get laughed at with your demands and then go to a judge and get laughed at again, it's really going to set in. At every step of the way, you've been told 'no'. That isn't going to change. You feel like you've won, but the reality is far different.

I'm ashamed to be even losely associated with scum like yourself.
 
How does it feel being at the highest pay level you have ever had? Plus profit sharing! Must be nice.
That's not ALPA's fault. Its our MEC that dropped the ball.

Funny, the EAST is at its lowest and the West is at its highest compensation. No wonder you think ALPA is great. You are working under the best conditions you ever had. Thats too funny. You guys remind me of Skybus a year ago. Same talk. Fast upgrades and lots of airplanes on order.
We were moving in the right direction and you were about to go out of business. We bought you and now you think you are the "big dogs" on campus. That's the part that I think is funny. You guys are the laughing stock of the industry. Your airline was a failure because of people like you.

Anyway, good luck trying to get our flying. It won't happen. You will be fenced in your low yield market.
Yeah...we are soooo looking forward to being based in PHL flying EMB-190s for $40 an hour. Low yeild market??? See below...

You will enjoy exactly what you had prior to the merger. The desert and about 100 plus airplanes and your attrition. Hopefully you will see some growth in PHX and a few 330, which all belongs to you.
What I had before was an airline that was making enough money to buy you and was growing. I was looking at a 7-8 year upgrade...now who knows. Did we have the best contract? Heck no. But we were going into contract talks while the economy was pretty good. Now we may be facing a recession, we still don't have a good contract and we're stuck with you.

By the way, AWA Pilots could have saved ALPA by creating a 10-15 year fence, which would have protected the majority of us Eastholes and by not putting our reps in trusteeship who were just represting the will of its pilot group.
That's pretty much what were gonna get now. You're not going to be able to overthow the Nic award. No judge is going to touch it. So the most you can do is try to put up fences. I'm ok with fences because when the fences come down we'll still be protected by the Nic award.

Don't forget Parker has to sign the contract that you propose and he's not gonna sign something that costs the company alot of money or thats based on your emotional dribble.

But no, you wanted it all now. Did you westies ever think that placing a pilot with 17 years of service with a newhire was going to be excepted.
We want it all?? We just want to be placed on the seniority list relative to our seniority. You want the seniority list to reflect your longevity. 17 years of sevice is not 17 years of seniority. Your bottom guy has 17 years of service but he has zero seniority...he's the botom guy!!! Why should he move up the list at my expense??.

Besides, we didn't create the final award. Nicolau did. Go get pissed at him. We sat at the table with you and you wouldn't budge at all on DOH.

Our bottom active pilot went down the entire list. Nic did not merge the lists by using active pilots. Anyone who says MDA were not active USAIR pilots is clueless.
The MDA guys should not be included. Nicolau made the right call here.


In 10 years there might only be 500-1000 Eastholes left. So, just like a kid who can not wait, you will. Be patient and you will have the airline, just not now.
Rant over.

Marty

Hopefully less...and when we become the majority we won't forget any of this.









A few weeks back Continental shareholders recieved a merger analysis explaining the sinergies between Continental and United.

According to their research the top ten cities, ranked by O&D revenue are:

1. Los Angeles
2. Las Vegas
3. Chicago (Ohare)
4. Atlanta
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
6. Orlando
7. San Fransisco
8. Phoenix
9. Denver
10. Newark

PHL was 16 and CLT was 30.

USAPA keeps claiming that the west loses money. Would you please cite your source of this info?
 
MCDU,

What does the AWA contract have to do with AAA pilots.

Our contracts were both negotiated well before this merger.


USAPA and many of your pilots have told the AWA pilots that LOA 93 works just fine.

So, whats your point?

BTW, how large were those profit sharing checks at AAA between 2000 and 2005? Please post numbers.
 
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USAPA keeps claiming that the west loses money. Would you please cite your source of this info?

Probably the same source that provided Baghdad Bob with his "we are winning this war," info.

737
 
mcdu-
seniority does not equal longevity.
if you had 17 years, but were the bottom pilot- than yes, that is how it works and what is fair. Why should a merger make you anything but the bottom pilot when that's what you were before?

the reward for 17 years is topped out pay- which is a valuable thing-proven by all the pilots who refused to leave it and start over at 1st year pay somewhere else.
You have noone to blame but your OWN pilot group for the MDA mess. You got sold out-- join the rest of the young pilots in this country who have been sold out by the older generations... (b-scale, scope)

Will you respond to my above post and do your best to explain why the East pilots believe that seniority and longevity are synonomous?

Again- if after 17 years you find yourself at the bottom of a seniority list- what is it about a merger that you believe should change that?


or is this thread just flame b/c merger messes are the pilot version of 'days of our lives'.. ...
 
Sorry Sir Scab Marty...I'm nothing you mentioned. You are a self professed union busting Scab. That's a fact that can no longer be contested. In 17 years,Why didn't you ever pull your head out of your ass long enough to look around, face reality, and dump US Air? How many turned down recall? You were at the bottom of the list before, and NIC puts you EXACTLY where you belong, and credits you for what you've earned. Sorry you've made such poor choices in life but that isn't the West's problem.

Nic will stand, USAPA will fail at every turn, and you will still be right where you belong...forever.
 
I'll give it a shot. Seniority is based on your DOH, that is according to both of our sect. 22. That covers everything to do with the job.
Longevity is the length of time actually working.

example. I was hired in April 2000. so for seniority purposes I have 8 years. However for two of those years I was on LOA, plus 1 year of furlough. So my longevity is 5 years.

The company definitely know the difference because I can guarantee they would be paying me 5th year pay not 8th.
Even though I am on 5th year pay not 8th, my DOH of April 2000 is still the one I use for bidding. This is because my seniority is based on DOH. Just like it is out West.
This is how our company, and all other companies define the two.
FYI these dates are not mine I just made them up for an example
 
C'mon guys, let Marty MCDU enjoy his gloating. His self-esteem desperately needs it -- especially considering what's ahead.

USAPA won a battle but is doomed to lose the war. I'm actually looking foward to your "professional" negotiator sitting down with management and demanding to rework the seniority list. My guess is the company will respond "that's not on the table". If not, a judge will readily issue an injuction preventing its implementation. Then you'll be left with a weak, do-nothing union, and LOA93 until the next NMB election or merger. Your behavior will benefit you naught.
 
Sorry Sir Scab Marty...I'm nothing you mentioned. You are a self professed union busting Scab. That's a fact that can no longer be contested. In 17 years,Why didn't you ever pull your head out of your ass long enough to look around, face reality, and dump US Air? How many turned down recall? You were at the bottom of the list before, and NIC puts you EXACTLY where you belong, and credits you for what you've earned. Sorry you've made such poor choices in life but that isn't the West's problem.

Nic will stand, USAPA will fail at every turn, and you will still be right where you belong...forever.

You're right. It will stand.

If the April hijackers and terrorists of USAPA are allowed to overturn neutral arbitrators rulings, then no pilot group is safe from infant seniority rage. Just as DALPA's MEC is hijacking the NWA pilots by force, so are the U crybabies hijacking AWA pilots.

The AWA pilots need to meet with Parker and get some deal to convice management it's in their best interest to flush the east coast turds they've scooped out of the toilet back to the sewer.

That is the only way this airline will survive. What can those idiots at USAPA do ?

Throw another tantrum ?

Sue ? (with what money ?)

I say the AWA pilots should revolt against the USAPA and tell them to do whatever they want. These clowns are going to force the AWA pilots to spend the remainder of their careers on their knees and it will be the viability of this airline that suffers.

Hear that Parker !..........meet with the AWA reps and clean house..............FAST.
 
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So far every prediction a Westie has stated turns out wrong. Think about it.
 
From the UCRAPA Constitution.....(if you can call it that)

ARTICLE II MEMBERSHIP

Section 1. Qualifications


Any person of lawful age and of good moral character who is qualified as a pilot with U.S. Airways, Inc., and who has not resigned or retired from such status with the airline, shall be eligible for membership in the USAPA as hereinafter provided.

Well i guess MCDU and all the other 2700 eastholes are screwed......they cant even join their own union...:eek:



 
C'mon guys, let Marty MCDU enjoy his gloating. His self-esteem desperately needs it -- especially considering what's ahead.

USAPA won a battle but is doomed to lose the war. I'm actually looking foward to your "professional" negotiator sitting down with management and demanding to rework the seniority list. My guess is the company will respond "that's not on the table". If not, a judge will readily issue an injuction preventing its implementation. Then you'll be left with a weak, do-nothing union, and LOA93 until the next NMB election or merger. Your behavior will benefit you naught.

Yep.

A bunch of rioters that protest by burning their own houses down.

That'll show 'em, they say.

I say not a single AWA pilot ahould give a wooden nickel to these terrorists.
 
So far every prediction a Westie has stated turns out wrong. Think about it.

Your situation is hopeless.

The best thing Parker can do to save this airline is jettison what they bought. Perhaps a fire sale of routes, planes and equipment.

Keep the best and sell the rest. Then furlough like mad on the East side since it's still seperate.

Come on Parker !

Get'er done !
 
I'll give it a shot. Seniority is based on your DOH, that is according to both of our sect. 22.

This clumsy parsing of contract language is a perfect example of the intellectual dishonesty that the entire East "argument" has been built on since long before Nicolau warned them that it wasn't going to fly. Seniority is based on your DOH relative to the DOH of every other pilot on the seniority list, in other words a percentile. Longevity is a relationship to a point in time. Seniority is a relationship to other individuals. They are not the same thing.
 
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Exerpt from the recent PlaneBusiness Banter (Holly Hegeman's opinion):

Our other main, and somewhat-related, topic this week is ALPA. The voting came to a close this week in the pilot representation election at US Airways. And this one came down to the wire.
As we predicted would be the case here months ago, the US Airline Pilots Association, or USAPA, beat out ALPA for the right to represent the pilots at the airline by a vote of 2,723 to 2,254. Once again, emotion rules.
For those who need a refresher on who's who here, USAPA was set up by a group of US Airways East pilots, as a result of that group's unhappiness with the ALPA arbitrator's decision concerning seniority of the combined union group consisting of both former US Airways pilots and former America West pilots.
In response to this turn of events, the former America West pilot group has formed its own ongoing support group, the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Alliance.
Think the pilots at Northwest Airlines are watching all of this intra-ALPA turmoil with more than just a bit of interest?
As a person who regularly communicates with pilots from both sides of the fence on this one -- here's my observation now that the election has been completed.
Last week I talked about the abject lack of leadership American Airlines showed in dealing with the press, its passengers, and its employees in regard to the Maddog groundings.
This week, we've got another prime example -- President John Prater at ALPA.
Strip out all the emotion and the rhetoric and the crap about this situation at US Airways and here is the way it is.
ALPA had a process in place to deal with a merger of two pilot groups that were both represented by ALPA. That process, I might add, had been changed a few years ago so that date of hire was no longer to be the one and only measure of where a pilot appeared on a merged seniority list.
Got that?
It's kind of like a law. While certain ALPA members might not have liked the fact ALPA did this a few years ago -- it was done. Period.
So America West pilots and US Airways pilots try to come to terms on a seniority agreement on their own.
Can't do it.
I don't think either side should blame the other for this. I would be shocked if any two pilot groups could do this on their own -- just as was the case with Delta and Northwest. Expecting this to happen is hallucinatory.
So, again, ALPA has a process that both sides are to follow, if this happens. It's called binding arbitration. It's also called binding arbitration for a reason.
And that is what happened. The issue was taken to an arbitrator.
That arbitrator ruled last May.
At that point, ALPA President John Prater should have immediately accepted the decision, presented it to US Airways management and told his membership: The organization's guildlines have been followed; we now move forward.
But no. He did nothing. Not only that, but he allowed the US Airways East pilots to present their dissenting argument to the ALPA board.
Worst case, Prater could have done what he needed to do and presented the list to US Airways after that presentation. Better late than never.
He didn't, the US Airways East pilots then had the momentum to start an anti-ALPA movement, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Now, not only does ALPA have this disaster to contend with (along with a huge reduction in dues) but we haven't even touched on the Delta-Northwest situation. But I know we will be doing so in the coming months.
Meanwhile, not one attorney I've talked to thinks that this move to USAPA will in any way negate the existing arbitration award. America West pilots or those sympathetic to ALPA will now refuse to pay dues to the new organization, all pilots have now lost insurance coverage and other benefits they had with ALPA, and the new union has zilch in the bank.
Where's all that jet-fuel driven testosterone when we need it?
 

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