hey westies, thanks for the mail....

[Question4U]

Well AWA was about the only game intown (plus maybe JB and SWA) back in 2003/2004.

I never got to interview, the person that checked on my app in the Fall (or abouts) of 2004 said I was in the short stack on Tracey's desk but then Jan of 2005 came first and I guess you know the rest.

Well um um um you don't understand.

 

[PHXFLYR]

...........................

 

[TWA Dude]

In '04 who knew where the industry was turning. I'm sure he was looking at anything that was a step up from where he was.

Are you telling me that the majority of AWA folks were hunky dory with their airline, thinking that was the last stop of their career, and didn't have apps in anywhere else? I doubt that.

This kind of talk (from either side) makes me crazy. Who had an app in or interviewed with which airline is completely irrelevant. Nicolau understood the situation when he wrote:

Of considerable importance is the question of career
expectations. As previously stated, America West argues that the
career expectations of the US Airways pilots were nil; that if the
airline was not a failing carrier saved from certain liquidation by its
purchase by America West, it was so close as to make little difference.
On the other hand, America West, in the view of its pilots, was robust
and on its way to sustained achievement. The US Airways pilots argue
that neither description fits the facts. In their view, US Airways,
though in bankruptcy for the second time, had lowered its costs and
secured additional investment capital ensuring its survival and
prospects of emerging from bankruptcy. Beyond this, as shown by
repeated post-merger statements by America West's CEO and by
expert analysis, that airline was also in poor financial condition.
Thus, both airlines needed each other and both have benefited from
the merger. The US Airways pilots assert that this, as well as cases it
cites as precedent, argue for the proposition that the financial picture
of the two airlines was relatively the same and, as such, should not even be considered.

Our view is that neither picture is persuasive. The US Airways reliance on post-merger statements by America West's CEO, clearly made to assuage growing concerns of America West pilots who had seen a post-merger end to hiring, an increasing return of long furloughed US Airways pilots and a flattening in their own advancement, is misplaced. Equally so is America West's insistence that US Airways was about to disappear. Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues.

The important thing to note being the Nicolau didn't try to make predictions of the industry's future. He only looked at the snapshot which is what ALPA Merger Policy calls for.

 

[Hpilot]

You have the support of all pilots- senior and junior. The AOL west babies don't get it! Stay strong, support your union and stand behind Mike Cleary. When we get date of hire you will never have to be worried again about furlough!

Yeah, because staying strong and smashing your heads against a brick wall has worked so well in the past. You wouldn't negotiate with the company so a judge handed you a forced BK contract. You wouldn't negotiate with the west on seniority so a judge handed you a seniority list. Are you all gay? It appears the only way you guys like something is when it's shoved up your @ss.

 

[cactusboy53]

In '04 who knew where the industry was turning. I'm sure he was looking at anything that was a step up from where he was.

Are you telling me that the majority of AWA folks were hunky dory with their airline, thinking that was the last stop of their career, and didn't have apps in anywhere else? I doubt that.

I'd probably be right that the majority of the seniority list at AWA was hunkered down in their current position, waiting out to see where the industry would turn, hoping to jump ship once the majors started hiring again. (sorta like what half your list did in the late 90's /2000)

So I guess since some AWA guys probably had apps in at Jblue or SWA etc...they didn't see AWA having that great of a future?

Craze;
In 2004 AWA was ratifying a new post-9/11 contract. Given the conditions of the post-9/11 airline economy you could rightly classify it as "industry-leading". AWA was the first major airline to fly after 9/11, and we were the first major airline to bring back all furloughed pilots. In 2004 we were hiring like crazy (pun intended), upgrading pilots @ 6-7 years, getting new Airbus equipment, and expanding. I don't think there were that many that were looking to jump ship at that time.

Were people looking at JBlue, Virgin, CAL? Perhaps. Of those three I know we had a couple go to CAL (for that 2 year captain upgrade). There are some people in this industry that simply flit around from airline to airline chasing a better quality of life / wage.

I'm sorry that we didn't interview LearLove in the beginning (and many others). We have a bunch of former US Air pilots that left there to fly at AWA, and it's a great bunch of people.

Regards.

PS How's the Vette project going?

 

[JetMonkey]

Are you telling me that the majority of AWA folks were hunky dory with their airline, thinking that was the last stop of their career, and didn't have apps in anywhere else? I doubt that.

I did.. In 04 things were great. Hired on with a GROWING airline and didn't have to commute anymore. I was a happy camper ready to hang my hat. Only lasted 9 months until the merger was announced.

 

[Crzipilot]

obviously sarcasm isn't taken very well via my written word. I was trying to echo, the thoughts of TWA there. Just the point the previous poster made about someone having an app some where or whatever..... How the hell does that have any bearing on anything considering the shape of this industry post 9/11. I.E. if any of us were THAT smart, then NONE of us would be in this industry.

... 'vette project is dead. Turned out the frame had been hacked, Might be able to save some of it, but basically looks like p.o. fabricated some contraption to the rear end of the front of the vette frame. Guess it was eaten away or damaged or some sort, but not what we were hoping for...

 

[LearLove]

Well um um um you don't understand.

Listen, explain to me how digging up a post on an app question from 6 years ago is some kind of "trump" to my original post. Was that the best you guys could come up with? Calling me out for applying to AWA in back in 2003/2004 when I was a Dash8 commuter pilot 12 months before the merger was even announced. Not to mention years before your coveted Nic "award". yeah like that has never been tried/done before, a commuter pilot with pic time trying to move onto a mainline jet operation, go figure. You guys really solved the case, you got me.

What was "your rubber and I'm glue" not available or something.

 

[cactusboy53]

Listen, explain to me how digging up a post on an app question from 6 years ago is some kind of "trump" to my original post. Was that the best you guys could come up with? Calling me out for applying to AWA in back in 2003/2004 when I was a Dash8 commuter pilot 12 months before the merger was even announced. Not to mention years before your coveted Nic "award". yeah like that has never been tried/done before, a commuter pilot with pic time trying to move onto a mainline jet operation, go figure. You guys really solved the case, you got me.

What was "your rubber and I'm glue" not available or something.

Lear;
We "westies" find it interesting because had AWA interviewed and hired you, you would have had 3-4 years of service in PHX/LAS and would unfortunately been furloughed out of seniority (based on the Nicolau award). You would have had the support of the PHX based pilots while you were out, and NO support from USAPA (unless of course you had been a member in good standing....and I doubt much support at that). You would have been out for a year or better, and then welcomed back to PHX with open arms. While you awaited your recall in PHX, you would have received a letter from the company to fill E190 FO slots in PHL (4-5 year pay, 12 month lock in equipment, 18 month east lock, AND THE USAPA LINE THAT YOU WOULD BE PLACED BELOW ALL THIRD LIST EMPLOYEES SENIORITY.) How would you have felt about the brochure that was mailed to the east pilot group then?

USAPA was born as a means to evade the Nicolau Award (at any and all costs). The courts will decide the case, and I think ultimately the Nicolau Award will be the final seniority for a joint contract. What will the east have won? Delay, and only delay. When this is over the pilots will have lost MILLIONS of dollars in wage, benefits, contract improvements, and additional time off. Conversely SSM&P will have made MILLIONS of dollars, and LLC & the LLC Management will have reaped huge amounts of cash (Isom just cashed in 1.2 Million in stock the other day).

You can not put the kids through college with a wallet full of delay. The time has come to unseat the USAPA team for "change" and get a contract while times are good. Failing to do so, will ultimately get us parked. Trying to hijack the profit sharing will get that money "parked" as well (think interest free loan for the company).

Regards.