Hey Sully, Eat This!

[BornAgainPagan]

Sully wouldn't have used 4 attempts to land...he would have made it in one...

How do you know? Were you on that Westwind? Had you also flown with Sully so you can make such a comparison? Please, give us all of the details.

 

[Lear70]

Decaf anyone? jeez...

 

[EMBpilot]

Take your cocky attitude that military pilots are superior and shove it up your..

Cocky is not good. That is true, but don't confuse it with experience.

Military pilots are by far superior because every day of their career they go through selection at tremendous pressure and fast pace.

Civis fly at their own pace, retake checkrides if needed and get lost in a paper bag.

The airlines hire civis only because they have to, and if your brother is an airline recruiter he will tell you that if he could he would only hire mil. guys.

Nothing personal, don't freak out, don't swear at me and don't let your fragile ego down - it is just the exposure to hard training and constantly flying and working at a 100%.

 

[Lear70]

Cocky is not good. That is true, but don't confuse it with experience.

Military pilots are by far superior because every day of their career they go through selection at tremendous pressure and fast pace.

Civis fly at their own pace, retake checkrides if needed and get lost in a paper bag.

The airlines hire civis only because they have to, but if your brother is an airline recruiter he will tell you that if he could he would only hire mil. guys.

Nothing personal, don't freak out, don't swear at me and don't let your fragile ego down - it is just the exposure to hard training and constantly flying and working at a 100%.

Actually... I *WAS* a recruiter.

And no, I wouldn't take only mil applicants "if I could". A mix of both is healthy in a large airline environment.

And in a smaller private flight department? No, thanks. I'll keep it mostly civilian. It takes too long to re-train the mil guys and gals to the customer service mentality required in the civilian charter/fractional/corporate world.

No offense intended, don't take it personally.

 

[Dan Roman]

Cocky is not good. That is true, but don't confuse it with experience.

Military pilots are by far superior because every day of their career they go through selection at tremendous pressure and fast pace.

Civis fly at their own pace, retake checkrides if needed and get lost in a paper bag.

The airlines hire civis only because they have to, but if your brother is an airline recruiter he will tell you that he if he could he would only hire mil. guys.

Nothing personal, don't freak out, don't swear at me and don't let your fragile egos down - it is just the exposure to hard training and constantly flying and working at a 100%.

This is too good to pass up.

Every once in awhile someone comes along with the point of view you have. It never fails, it's never one of the many really good ex military pilots that feel that way, it's always the so so ones.
The vast majority of both civil and mil pilots understand a good pilot can come from any background.
Your last statement indicates some ignorance on your part too. Yes, exposure to hard training and constantly flying and working 100% is excellent for getting a good foundation in flying. The guys who think because they have been through that and think it makes them better often become weak pilots over time.
Finally, flying is not just how well you fly an airplane, far from it. Good CRM skills are just as important or even more so than flying skills. You appear to have a level of bias and ignorance that would make you difficult to work with in a 2 or 3 man cockpit crew.

You are an embarrassment to the vast majority of outstanding Military pilots out there.

 

[waka]

Cocky is not good. That is true, but don't confuse it with experience.

Military pilots are by far superior because every day of their career they go through selection at tremendous pressure and fast pace.

Civis fly at their own pace, retake checkrides if needed and get lost in a paper bag.

The airlines hire civis only because they have to, and if your brother is an airline recruiter he will tell you that if he could he would only hire mil. guys.

Nothing personal, don't freak out, don't swear at me and don't let your fragile ego down - it is just the exposure to hard training and constantly flying and working at a 100%.

yawn
.

 

[328dude]

But can they use a Jepp plate?

 

[BushTheIdiot]

Military pilots are by far superior because every day of their career they go through selection at tremendous pressure and fast pace.

Civis fly at their own pace, retake checkrides if needed and get lost in a paper bag.

"far superior"? That's just stupid. Perhaps when you get more experience, you realize that your mindless stereotypes don't hold water

As a former 135 check airman for a large check hauling outfit, I've seen just as many military guys wash out as civilians.

 

[Smash312]

Take your cocky attitude that military pilots are superior and shove it up your tight ass. This CIVILIAN, former pizza delivery driver and model outperformed you under conditions that were much worse. It's too bad that this won't receive as much ballyhoo in the media.

You are a Batty man.

 

[IXLR8]

If Chuck Norris was on Sully's plane..those birds never would've came close..end of story.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Cocky is not good. That is true, but don't confuse it with experience.

Military pilots are by far superior because every day of their career they go through selection at tremendous pressure and fast pace.

Civis fly at their own pace, retake checkrides if needed and get lost in a paper bag.

The airlines hire civis only because they have to, and if your brother is an airline recruiter he will tell you that if he could he would only hire mil. guys.

Nothing personal, don't freak out, don't swear at me and don't let your fragile ego down - it is just the exposure to hard training and constantly flying and working at a 100%.

Makes me wonder why those two Air Force pilots got lost on approach into Cali.

 

[bubbers44]

Situational awareness was lost that night by them. They went heads down in the cockpit and selected R direct which was an NDB into Cali but the same R was the FAF at Bogota so the FMC sent them east instead of south. Then they got busy putting in raw data even though the map display clearly showed them turning into the mountains east of them but neither one caught it. The FO was unfamiliar with Cali and flying so started a premature descent and hit a hill after they got GPWS alert. In the max power recovery he forgot the speed brakes so hit the top of the hill. Being military had nothing to do with the crash but they were both out of the loop for a while before impact

I flew into San Salvador that same night and with no moon my FO was nervous when I overflew the airport for a right pattern landing east. I told him the highest obstacle since we would be over water was a possible 90 ft sailboat mast. It was very dark that night.

 

[bubbers44]

Yes, I agree, just because you came from the military doesn't make you a better pilot. I would rather fly with a new pilot from a commuter than a fighter pilot who never flew with a crew but had an ego that wouldn't quit. I've flown a lot with both. The military guys usually come back down to earth and are really good crewmembers. B52 guys are a different story.

 

[J Dawg]

Back to Sully, here's another Australian news clip....

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,26387550-5014090,00.html

I respect what he's done, but this is just TMI

 

[Dan Roman]

Yes, I agree, just because you came from the military doesn't make you a better pilot. I would rather fly with a new pilot from a commuter than a fighter pilot who never flew with a crew but had an ego that wouldn't quit. I've flown a lot with both. The military guys usually come back down to earth and are really good crewmembers. B52 guys are a different story.

Sage observation and says what I was trying to say only better.
The bottom line is Military or Civilian, if you have the perpective that you are continually learning and don't think you already know it all, you will be a good pilot. If, you think your background somehow makes you already a good pilot, than you will probably be a much weaker pilot than you think you are.
In an airline environment, CRM skills are crucial. We all can drive the airplane through the sky, it's the ability to interact with your environment that decides how well you fly. Anyone who truly feels like EMBPilot is much more vulnarable to having problems than most.

 

[Hamburger]

Actually, you are playing arm-chair quarterback. YSNF doesn't have an ILS. There's only an NDB and a VOR/DME. I wouldn't call it a failure on his part at all. I'd put him in the same category as Sully. Yes, I was partially flaming in my original post. However, this pizza guy's situation was tougher than Sully's. I'll say it for you. You stand corrected.

This pizza guy's situation was tougher than Sully's because HE PUT HIMSELF IN IT.

Apparently, your hero isn't familiar with the concept of an Alternate. He went missed FOUR times?!? FOUR? Then decided that the OCEAN was the best option? The OCEAN?! I'm the Brett Favre of calling this guy an idiot.

Running out of gas for any reason other than fuel leak is squarely in "EPIC FAIL" territory. No question.

 

[Say Again Over]

Apparently you need to familiarize yourself to the destination involved, go back to flipping burgers.

 

[waka]

I'm the Brett Favre of calling this guy an idiot.

More like, you're an idiot know-it-all for thinking that your brain works like Favre's quarterbacking. Go back to your mental masturbation and feeding your big belly.

Mouth Breathers are the easiest to Spoon Feed.

If you keep your mouth shut, perhaps people won't be compelled to spoon feed you.

 

[JT12345]

For me I think his decison making and choices were what most pilots would have done when placed in that situation.

I am not sure he gives the "average" pilot enough credit. Maybe that is just because of what his wife said, but you know she is his wife and most wives think their husbands are great pilots.

I can tell you that I was in a similar situation when I had 600 hours total time. I just wasn't in an Airbus, but instead I was in a small single engine airplane with an engine failure. I had to dead stick and did not have a place to land without going around obstacles and under phone lines. The way he describes his thought processes during the emergency was something I can sympathize with from experience when a low time pilot.

I really think most of us could have the same outcome on a bad day.

I think Sully has been gracious, and a stand up guy. He handled the media appropriately, and has used this experience for the benefit of all his follow pilots.

His military, and safety background had nothing to do with the outcome. It just wasn't exceptional what he did. It was just an exceptional situation.

 

[hyper]

After the first attempt, he had plenty of time and opportunity to make his own approach to the runway. Anyone here that cannot calculate a "vdp" with head math from any approach plate not so defined should probably review that process. It should already be REQUIRED in your approach brief anyway.

Which would you prefer in an emergency? The option to descend IMC below mins, maybe even all the way to the runway, in a controlled and calculated decent? Or ditch "in shark infested waters" at night? Are you kidding?

Had everybody perished, this guy's decision would have become a classroom lesson on idiocy. The thought that anyone defends his decision as heroic is truly alarming.

As far as Sully's concerned, like him post accident or not, his "time" called and he stood up to the test. Many are alive because of it and that's really all that matters in the end. Comparing the Aus. accident to his is laughable at best.