Hey Chq

[skootertrash]

I know that, Sam.

But... As of today, you are paid less than CHQ. That's not a slam, it just is what it is.

Of course MY comment was aimed more at skootertrash than XJT, so relax a little... It's all good.

You guys are all missing the point. If and when Airways tanks CHQ will come to the pilots hat in hand. They have already gone to CAL to try and get the XJT flying and said they would undercut whatever we are charging. SO how will they do it.............Oh come on guys just take a few consessions and you can have all this CAL flying.

Ya see where this is going!!!!!

I'm sick of this FU*$#ng race to the bottom!

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>If and when Airways tanks CHQ will come to the pilots hat in hand.<<<

So you're angry at the CHQ pilots for something they haven't even done yet? And indeed may never do?

I had a conversation with an ExpressJet captain about a year ago about your contract negotiations, and he seemed to think it was almost a given that you'd lose some amount of the CAL feed when your exclusive agreement expires. He didn't seem to optimistic about the continued future of XJT in its' current form, or at least its' current (or projected) size. Now that was just one man's opinion, of course, but he intimated that he'd been around the block at XJT for quite a while (some of his comments make me think he was at least a 10-yr seniority pilot) and probably had a pretty good handle on what was likely to happen. Similar discussions with some of your current pilots, friends of mine, leads me to believe that they're onto something.

I dunno, skooter, I think you'd better get ready to lash out at any number of other RJ operators in the coming years, as it appears inevitable that some of the CAL flying will no longer be yours... It's just a matter of how much. And if it isn't CHQ, it'll be someone else. Not a race to the bottom, just good business for CAL if they can get the same product for less. To do any differently would be letting down the stockholders who actually own the company, and I dare say in any publicly held airline, management is more concerned with the stockholders than the pilots. Sad, but true.

Yeah, it sucks. But... Blaming the CHQ guys isn't the remedy, unless you think that CHQ management is spending a lot of time on the board. Accusing them of some imagined future misdeed is at the very least highly unfair.

 

[walpaper]

But... As of today, you are paid less than CHQ.

Reality check:

XJT current rates - signed in 1997, (7 years ago) 2 years past expiration

CHQ current rates - less than a year old


Boy, there's something to be proud of:

"Our brand new pay rates beat your seven years old, two years past expiration pay rates."

Furthermore, if the XJT compensation tables were extended out past the ammendable date two more years, they would be higher than the new CHQ rates.

You guys seem to be happy with your contract and that's great since you have to live under it, but don't come on here touting it like it's some prize-winning deal. In the end, all you have done is given your management the ability to undercut other carriers, steal jobs, and line their pockets with the money earned off the sweat of YOUR backs. While I don't blame the CHQ pilots directly for doing this, you certainly are indirectly responsible. Kinda like giving bullets to a murder - you didn't pull the trigger, but you certainly provided the ammo.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>You guys seem to be happy with your contract and that's great since etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.<<<

The argument you make about CHQ's rates not being something to be proud of... Well, that's STILL not the point. Accusing the pilots of trying to undercut XJT, when as of right now CHQ pilots make more money, defies logic.

That's all, I'm not defending CHQ's contract, not least because I don't work there...

 

[bogberto]

Accusing the pilots of trying to undercut XJT, when as of right now CHQ pilots make more money, defies logic.

Might as well just give up trying to explain it. They know everything there is to know, and any problems they encounter are to be blamed on someone else.

When Mesa had all the HP flying in CMH, Chautauqua underbid us to get it. Did the pilots do it? Nope. Management did. Plain and simple capitalism at its finest. They had every right to do it.

 

[aewanabe]

You guys are all missing the point. If and when Airways tanks CHQ will come to the pilots hat in hand. They have already gone to CAL to try and get the XJT flying and said they would undercut whatever we are charging. SO how will they do it.............Oh come on guys just take a few consessions and you can have all this CAL flying.

Ya see where this is going!!!!!

I'm sick of this FU*$#ng race to the bottom!

Uh, glad you know what our mgmt is doing, since we seldom do. CAL isn't even on our rumor mill. For the record, nowhere in the course of our last negotiations was the idea of pay-for-growth broached by our managers. Sorry, no-one came and said "take these crap rates, and you'll get all the new DL/UA/etc.flying."

Besides, don't you have exclusive JET feed with CO until 2007? Doesn't sound to me like we'd even be in the picture yet.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>Besides, don't you have exclusive JET feed with CO until 2007?<<<

Ya know, I forgot about that part... It may not be 2007, but it IS a bit early for CHQ to be angling to "steal" XJT's flying.

 

[skootertrash]

CAL and XJT are negotiating now for block hours and rates after 2007.


Plus and C11 filing by CAL abrogates the CPA allowing CAL to do what ever it wants.

And pay for growth........it Chitty Taco is posed the question....40% layoffs or growth for less $$$$$.......HELLO MESA

 

[I.P. Freley]

Your argument is not helped at all with your "chitty taco" and "sh1tty kitty" pseudonyms, skooter.

 

[BoilerUP]

Bog has one of the best posts on this topic thus far.

Its hard for Comapny "C" to underbid Company "E" when Company "E" has pilots currently making less than pilots at Company "C". This isn't a discussion of what did happen, or what will happen once new contracts are signed, this is current day, here and now. Its the Wal-Mart syndrome; would you spend $4.50 if are already getting the same exact product for $4?

What a few bitter XJT guys seem to fail to comprehend is the circumstances behind both Mesa and Chautauqua's contracts. Post-9/11. Company trying to start up a non-union airline to provide CHEAPER feed. They had to get the other airline's pilots on their seniority list in order to protect their flying. Since you get nothing for free in this or any industry, they traded pay for job security (and indirectly) growth.

I bet if Expressjet management said tomorrow they were going to be forming a non-union airline in the next year operating the E145 and/or E170 family of airplanes to codeshare with CAL, the trash-talkers of this board would do the same thing Mesa and CHQ pilots did.

I think I speak for every pilot at CHQ and Mesa (and I fly for neither one) when I say we all wish Expressjet pilots the best during their contract negotiations. Fight for what you believe you deserve, and live with whatever you can negotiate, for that is all you will be worth. We're all pulling for you.

And pay for growth........it Chitty Taco is posed the question....40% layoffs or growth for less $$$$$.......HELLO MESA

So you would be willing to sacrifice the bottom 40% of your seniority list so you could get a fat pay raise? The top selling out the bottom so they could "get theirs"? That sound like any other MAJOR AIRLINES out there we know???

 

[mmmdonut]

I liked sh1tty kitty... that's my favorite name for chq. I don't like the taco ones because mexican food gives me the squirts. Or maybe thats the water...

The CHQ folks win the prize for stinky uniforms. Someone oughta hand out some Tide.

Wait.... isn't it SkyWest who's gonna steal all our flying???!?!??!

 

[nonstop]

They're all dying to pick up more flying. They try to pretend like they encourage XJT on their new contract, meanwhile they're just chompin at the bit to subsidize CAL flying. Any flying. Growth=Bliss right?

Appartently the majority of them are too short sighted (polite way to say STUPID) to understand that their rolling over on their contracts is bad for the profession. Despite the fact they may see an immediate increase in their paycheck due to growth.

Oh, yah, you'll hear them squeal "Republic!" this and that... we all risk being under bid, eminent or not. They've fu<ked this profession over anyway you slice it. We've yet to see if XJT caves. I hope they don't.

It's time to redefine the word SCAB. Let's just reference MESA, CHQ and the like.

 

[Sam Fisher]

They've fu<ked this profession over anyway you slice it. We've yet to see if XJT caves. I hope they don't.

It's time to redefine the word SCAB. Let's just reference MESA, CHQ and the like.

I disagree with the second line about SCABS. It is just inappropriate.

On the first part, would XJT be caving or accepting the reality that we are in the worst airline negotiating environment in history? I dont like it anymore than you do by the way.

Sam

 

[nimtz]

Somewhere the suits are smiling:

I'll be the first to admit that some of the Xjet posters here are being complete @ssholes about what is nothing more then a rumor from our crackpipe. Guys I have no doubt that Xjet management wants us to be running scared with this news since we all know the vote on the strike and/or contract are around the corner. I understand and share the frustration you guys have, but for crying out jumping onto this message board calling out other guys as p*ssies before anything even gets in motion serves no purpose whatsoever. If you think we'll keep the exclusive contract with CAL you deserve a pee test.

In the meantime, relax and keep flying safe. The CHQ guys will find out soon enough that growth for lower wages leads no where when there is no where else to go. Let's worry about finishing the contract which in my eyes holds no bearing on what CAL wants to go do in 2007.

Nonstop, there is only one way to earn the label scab. Do not throw that word around.

 

[nonstop]

It's a new world guys, your traditional definitions from the 40's will get you no where. It's time we call a spade a spade.

Unions were created to protect the profession.

Our profession needs protecting because it's very specialized, all specialized professions are vulnerable to abuse. Especially when they're top heavy with senoirty systems. Unfortunately the traditional business model has changed and there are ways to circumvent senoirity without crossing a picket line.

Now we have entities in our profession willingly accepting underfunded compensation packages for simply the promise of growth. Growth at what cost? Cost to others in the same profession. They're advancing themselves at the demise of the rest of the profession, just like a SCAB of the past would have by crossing a picket line.

Think.