Here we go LUV!!!

[waveflyer]

pipe =I wish every route was taken over by wn. i wouldn't mind trading my legacy job for a wn one. bet you'd be happier if you stopped living in the past. the schedules are ridiculously good- and the money is good- b/c it is higher than the average accountant as an FO- unlike legacies. (but then again, i don't compare wages w/ other pilots- but with the rest of society. Which is actually what matters, right?)

 

[Herkdrv]

Good wages?? Are the rates posted on airlinepilotcentral wrong then? Because that aint good!! 737 pilots at a few of the legacies were being paid that 10 years ago, with contracts that were either in the works or already a done deal at the likes of United and Delta that would have had 737 guys topping out at nearly 250 an hour! You guys are 60 dollars an hour behind the curve.

401K? You gotta be kidding me! They were never intended to be used to base a retirement on.

And as far as your question about being better anywhere else, well I guess I would have to agree with you. But that is not because you all have been trailblazers, on the contrary, you have won the long war of attrition. Congratulations, I hope you are proud of yourselves. I mean comparing southworst to the legacies is like comparing the difference between being homeless and living in cardboard box in some subway alley (legacies) and living in a van down by the river (southworst)!! Yeah, I guess you guys certainly are industry leaders!uke:

And what wonderful airline do you work for again?

 

[pipejockey]

And what wonderful airline do you work for again?

I still can't fathom why some of you perceive my anti-southworst posts into meaning I am pro legacy management or assuming I think my airline is so wonderful. Well it sucks!! And I blame in part the southworst business model. I admit southworst is probably 1 of the better places to work in this day and age. But refer to my earlier post about living in a cardboard box and living in a van down by the river.

pipe =I wish every route was taken over by wn. i wouldn't mind trading my legacy job for a wn one. bet you'd be happier if you stopped living in the past. the schedules are ridiculously good- and the money is good- b/c it is higher than the average accountant as an FO- unlike legacies. (but then again, i don't compare wages w/ other pilots- but with the rest of society. Which is actually what matters, right?)

Well if that were to happen, I guess it would spell the end of my career. And I agree with you on comparing our salary to the rest of society. Go to glassdoor.com and see how much these people who work for accenture, google, etc earn doing all their computer stuff. What level of responsibility is there in some of those professions earning 6 figures? They don't have lives in their hands. Some of them have even had their education paid for by their companies.

 

[Flyer1015]

You really don't know what you are talking about...I was at a legacy...and wanted to work at SWA.....the dday after I got my 737 type at the legacy, I sent in my app to SWA...

It wasn't my "second Tier"...but my first...and I am thrilled with my choice.

I'm assuming this wasn't during 1995-2001?

 

[Flyer1015]

sounds like you've got it all figured out.

Just calling it like it was. Back in the 1995-2001 area, legacy carriers had the best pay, work rules, and QOL. SWA were used and abused, and required a type rating to get hired. I'm calling it like it was back then: most pilots considered SWA a 'second' tier carrier. No retirement plan was a biggie. And this was back when the legacy carriers had top notch retirement plans.

Now of course, the post 9/11 world is different. Legacies took paycuts. HUGE cuts. And, their average flying went up from 65-75 hrs of flying, to that on par with SWA or regionals: 80-90+ hrs. QOL dropped, pay dropped, retirements disappeared.

 

[328dude]

I'm assuming this wasn't during 1995-2001?

Actually, I thing he retired early from so called legacy, so yes he was there during that time.

 

[JetDude]

Just calling it like it was. Back in the 1995-2001 area, legacy carriers had the best pay, work rules, and QOL.../quote]

Yep...this was after my legacy friends who were victimized by the B scale and furloughs were finally able to return to flying work...sheesh

 

[waveflyer]

Well if that were to happen, I guess it would spell the end of my career. And I agree with you on comparing our salary to the rest of society. Go to glassdoor.com and see how much these people who work for accenture, google, etc earn doing all their computer stuff. What level of responsibility is there in some of those professions earning 6 figures? They don't have lives in their hands. Some of them have even had their education paid for by their companies.

Thank you Pipe!
This is the root problem-- Pilots don't value what we do- while routinely doing things that would make most men piss their pants- (It's not an ego-trip when you land in rain at night down to nothing and t-s's all around- but your judgement knows the difference between safe and a diversion)
meanwhile every other professional is fighting tooth and nail and organizing to make sure they earn as much as possible-- when their job is glorified paperwork. It's time pilots remembered that we are a more valuable professional in this country. If you routinely pass checkrides and interviews at a major airline-- you can do any of those office jobs.

then again-- the ignorance on this board can make me question that

 

[jball2]

Pipe- You are a hostage to your anger. You need to let it go before your health declines.

What was = the PAST.
What is = the PRESENT

Which one do you live in?

You don't have to like SWA. Really, you don't.

 

[Quimby]

Just calling it like it was. Back in the 1995-2001 area, legacy carriers had the best pay, work rules, and QOL. SWA were used and abused, and required a type rating to get hired. I'm calling it like it was back then: most pilots considered SWA a 'second' tier carrier. No retirement plan was a biggie. And this was back when the legacy carriers had top notch retirement plans.

Now of course, the post 9/11 world is different. Legacies took paycuts. HUGE cuts. And, their average flying went up from 65-75 hrs of flying, to that on par with SWA or regionals: 80-90+ hrs. QOL dropped, pay dropped, retirements disappeared.

Key word is was. Things have changed just a tad since 95-01, in case you haven't noticed. Looking back to what was is a waste of time. We'll be looking back at the present in 10+ years and see just as many changes.

btw.....the monster contracts that were negotiated in looked good for a while, but did they last? nope.

 

[waveflyer]

the contracts weren't the problem- they'll be back-- it's that pilot's got it in their head that it was more important to save management from themselves by voting in HUGE concessions to save the company than to keep the $$. That is was better to be paid less than to have to start over.

IT'S NOT.

B/c all of us are in the same situation we were-- management is richer, we are poorer w/ worse schedules- but the companies are now just as close to bk as before- still getting their butts kicked by wn- all you did was give yourself 7 more years, but at a reduced rate and QOL.

Can you say.... "DUPED" ?

There is something worse than a furlough and worse than starting over after a ch. 7--- we are living it right now.

 

[Cobra17]

More pay for being less productive? Sounds like a sustainable business model...especially in a softening economy with higher oil prices.

 

[Whataburger]

Just flew with a guy who was hired here in '99 and at UAL. When he finished IOE as an FO he got his classdate with UAL. He thought long and hard about what to do. He chose to stay here. So, this second tier airline has been very good to him vs. what he would have endured at UAL.
Chris Farley and me......DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Whataburger]

Just calling it like it was. Back in the 1995-2001 area, legacy carriers had the best pay, work rules, and QOL. SWA were used and abused, and required a type rating to get hired. I'm calling it like it was back then: most pilots considered SWA a 'second' tier carrier. No retirement plan was a biggie. And this was back when the legacy carriers had top notch retirement plans.

Now of course, the post 9/11 world is different. Legacies took paycuts. HUGE cuts. And, their average flying went up from 65-75 hrs of flying, to that on par with SWA or regionals: 80-90+ hrs. QOL dropped, pay dropped, retirements disappeared.

Babe Ruth made in a season what guys these days make in less than an inning. Is he a sell-out?

 

[waveflyer]

More pay for being less productive? Sounds like a sustainable business model...especially in a softening economy with higher oil prices.

Be careful.

I'm a fan of productivity and WN. But productivity is a relative thing. Compare your contract w/ many regionals and you might not be considered all that "productive" either.