Help a furloughed pilot decide please

[LearLove]

I think the J4J program is coming to a close so I need to do it soon if I'm gonna do it.

Yes its very close to the end of offers at Rep. The next bid closes on the 13th. The number of CA slots in the bid should get all the way thru the list (down to VE at the very bottom) thus there will be no more offers (unless there is another order for more jets contracted out - God please no).

When we were learning to fly and starting out as commercial pilots we all thought that checkrides, wx and a real emergency was the wrost thing we would have to deal with. Now looking back after 10 years making a living as a pilot I'd say that flying stress stuff is nothing compared to the way "job move" type decisions weigh on your mind. Especially after your "in" the bizz and have to make a move reguarding that "God Almighty Anchor" that is the senority number.

Good luck Swayz - make your decision based on your best possible information - say alittle prayer - then sit back and let her ride.

 

[Oneflap]

Im at Republic, There is so much growth here that they are holding J4J pilots at republic even if you get called back....they need pilots. The Contract says they can do this and it really sucks for the guys getting called back. Lots of Upgrades so you can plan on being on reserve for the whole time. 90 percent of the guys I fly in with IND are J4J and all they want to do is leave. the J4J guys that were able to hold a line are now moving backwards into reserve lines because of the new upgrades and Few J4J's coming because of republic holding them for a year and a half per contract. Trust me when I say you dont want to be on reserve with our Scheduling running your life. Led by One Grand Master Scheduler that has to approve all request for anything to do with scheduling. One year here and he has not approved any request that I have ever made. I am very glad to be off reserve. Lines at Republic are imposible to commute. IND has only 540am and 630am shows, very few 1200pm shows. Ive heard the same about PIT and DCA. returns are all 900pm or later.

Im going to be honest because it will not help me or you if you come here. It would slow down my upgrade and you would be stuck in a J4J hell for a year and a half min if not longer. You would be better off if you came here from off the street and would have a line in a couple of months. I have not had a line here in the past 6 months with less than 15 days off at about 85 hours. just the opposite for reserve, DCA reserve hardly ever fly's and IND Reserve never stops and all have min 11 days off and nothing more. 1 and half hour reserve call out. I hope this helps and good luck to you where ever you go.

Good Luck,

 

[Lear70]

Stay put, apply to NetJets. When you get the job, you won't have to commute and you'll be bringing home $100K within five years.

How's that?

If I had stayed at Flex back in '99, I'd be 8 years now, still unable to hold CL left seat, and only drawing about $90k.

Plus, I'd still have to deal with RH.

 

[BenderGonzales]

He said NetJets not Flex.
The moral of the story is that there is far more out in aviation than simply airline jobs. Hop the fence to the corporate side and ditch the golden handcuffs of seniority.

 

[Lear70]

He said NetJets not Flex.
The moral of the story is that there is far more out in aviation than simply airline jobs. Hop the fence to the corporate side and ditch the golden handcuffs of seniority.

Heh heh... yes, he did. Saw the Flex in his name and missed the Net in the next paragraph.

Yes, there is more outside airline life, and I've done both (as well as Boeing cargo). I prefer knowing my schedule in advance and more days off I get here than in the fractional world, and I'm reasonably comfortable that I'll make roughly the same money (within $500,000 over a 30 year career) at my LCC than I would at NJA.

It's all about what you like to do and where your priorities are. Mine are max days home, regardless of base income (I make more money outside of aviation right now than in it). I'm running about 20 days off a month - can you do that at a Fractional consistently each month?

 

[BenderGonzales]

I don't know. I've never worked for a fractional. After 11 years at the airlines i'm at a corporation where, last year, I spent a grand total of 6 nights away from my own bed (not including recurrent).

Do I miss the big comfortable cockpit? You bet. But not much else.

 

[Swaayze]

Im going to be honest because it will not help me or you if you come here. It would slow down my upgrade and you would be stuck in a J4J hell for a year and a half min if not longer.

Good Luck,

Thanks for the insight. I'm fully aware of the withholding (by contract they can withhold for the first 12 mos or 9 mos after recall, whichever is later, but we'd be pay and benefit protected to LCC compensation) and I'd fully expect to be pretty much number last for the whole time on reserve and commuting from DFW. That's why it's such a tough call to make; is it really worth all the crap just for logging the PIC and banking an extra $700-800/mo?.

 

[Swaayze]

I don't know. I've never worked for a fractional. After 11 years at the airlines i'm at a corporation where, last year, I spent a grand total of 6 nights away from my own bed (not including recurrent).

Do I miss the big comfortable cockpit? You bet. But not much else.

And yet you had to think about bypassing. Ridiculous the scenarios we have to play through our head to try and get it right! I don't think anyone reading this thread can really understand without being in a similar situation. I always heard furloughs were tough and thought, yeah probably but big deal, move on. Then when it happens it hits you like a ton 'o bricks and you question everything you've ever done and second guess every choice you make. Waaaaaa. Crying over. Open that Fort Worth arm of your dept so I can escape this airline junk already!

 

[AA717driver]

Now, I see you're talking about eventually working for AA, SWA or CAL for their TX bases.

Unless things bust wide open at AA, you won't hold DFW for a long time (a year or more?). It's even worse at SWA and you are not exactly at the front end of the hiring boom at CAL.

Count on commuting to a base outside of TX at whatever major you get hired at (IF you get hired there...) for a year or more. Plus, if you get hired at the end of the boom, you won't see DFW for a LONG time.

Unless you live in the N.E. or Florida, you're gonna commute while you are junior. Then, you are gonna commute again when you upgrade. Good luck. TC

 

[BenderGonzales]

So here's a question. If we bypass this time (and recalls went down to around April 99) will they send US (those who bypassed) another letter each time a new bid comes out?

 

[Turtle21]

So here's a question. If we bypass this time (and recalls went down to around April 99) will they send US (those who bypassed) another letter each time a new bid comes out?

I think the company doesn't plan on another letter. (Big surprise at how they are not following the contract procedures for recall)

Call Charmane and tell her you want to pass right now but want to be notified of following recall opportunities as the come up...

 

[CaptainChris77]

Stay put, apply to NetJets. When you get the job, you won't have to commute and you'll be bringing home $100K within five years.

Best advice yet!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

FlexJet has a DFW base, too. Basic math. 4/3 is 6 days off in 14. 7/7 is 7 days off in 14, which is MORE time with the FAMILY. AND, when u get 2 weeks of vacation, like NetJEts, it turns into 2 3 WEEK vacations/year. Awesome! Also, the 7/7 schedule goes on forever, so you can plan out all your stuff ahead of time. It won't take long for everyone to get used to being gone 7 days in a row, and the 7 at home is great. It will take quite a while to get 15/15.5 days off/month when u go to another airline.

With your family living in DAL, and it being so important. It seems like a no-brainer. Gemini/World are out, because even though u have home basing, you're gone up to 17 days in a row, or longer.

cliff
YIP
PS-I thought Chatauqua was BETTER than Eagle? Be glad you're not at TSA!

 

[Lear70]

I say again, avoid Flexjet like the plague until management changes (was such a GREAT place before the current management team came in and screwed it up for everyone).

Where can you get 15+ days off? AirTran. 15-16 days off with 95-100+ hours credit since my first month of reserve. 8 months of reserve including my first build-up month after IOE. Now holding 18-20 days off on about 75-80 hours of credit. Still in my first year.

LOTS of better places to work than Flexjet; Netjets included.

No offense to Flex guys, but my QOL is so much better now, I can't imagine going back to ANY fractional except maybe NJA and that only if something happened to AAI.

 

[whymeworry?]

1) Consider the NetJet or similar operation as an option. Some corporate gigs give you plenty of quality time with the family. I had a great time flying corporate charter.

2) Apply to CAL. For some reason PIC is no longer a priority there. Lots of growth over the next 4-5 years, plenty of retirements, and you could get based in IAH in a reasonable amount of time. Live in Montgomery County and its only 3 hrs to Dallas.

3) I would blow off the PIC opportunities if it means severely sacraficing the family. But if you can move the family to where you will be based, having PIC will probably pay off more in the long run of your career plus make you marketable overseas if you ever choose that option. Definately do not commute to reserve and definately do not give up your family time with your kids. If you move to Rep to fly the 170, you've got to bring your family with you.

4) Blow off LCC as long as you can but don't give up your number. $46/hr is abysmal. Hopefully you can stall a few more years and perhpas move into a better position (737 or 757 F/O etc) when they get to your name on the second round.

5) Leave the business. Hey, I know it sounds stupid but there is indeed life after the airlines. I have plenty of friends who have left the biz altogether after all the BS managements pulled over the last 5 yrs. They all love their new life and each one is making a lot more money than when they were flying.

6) DO NOT stay at Eagle forever. I'm sure, to you, they seem like a good airline but their mgmt sucks and the APA has screwed your ALPA pilot group too many times to have much hope for life improving. Plus flying a SLOB or an RJ for the rest of your life will get old and limit your career choices if AMR ever decides to spin off Eagle.


Sorry to hear about your misfortunate career thus far but remember, you have another 20 years and a lot can happen in that time. I wouldn't bet on the AGE-60 rule changing any time soon so don't base your decisions on that just yet. The pro-65 crowd finally got something they can sink their teeth into with Blakey's NPRM move but the overall fight is going to be long and hard for them.