Help a furloughed pilot decide please

[Swaayze]

A little hesitant to post this on FI, but what the heck.

Can't really keep this short in order to provide adequate background, but I'll do my best...

I am furloughed USAir and recalls are getting reasonably close to me. I expect an opportunity to return there on a 737/Airbus within a year or so, or to the E190 in a few months (I will definitely bypass that initially due to low pay $46/hr). I am an Eagle EMB FO just barely able to hold a line. I came back to Eagle 10/04 (I was here 94-99) after bouncing around post 9/11 to justify moving my family back to DFW and because Eagle is a good regional job, relatively speaking. But...things here seem very cloudy, at best I'd expect a Saab upgrade in another 2-3 years IF we can recruit enough newhires to avoid AMR putting our flying out for bid by others. I don't need a ton of money but I certainly am struggling on FO pay and even SF3 CA pay would barely allow saving anything for retirement. I have small kids (twins) in Kindergarten and cherish my time home, so commuting (to reserve especially) would really be a bummer (we won't be moving anytime soon due to wife's family in the immediate area).

I have less than 1000 turbine PIC but plenty of TT. I can go to Republic as an E170/175 Captain under the Jets4Jobs program (basically like an AA flowback but at year 1 longevity and seniority). If I do that it would be strictly to book the 1300 turbine PIC before I go back to USAir, in case history re-repeats itself and I wind up on the street for a 3rd time (#2 omitted for brevity). That would give me the option of the A list jobs as well as SWA and AA in the DFW area in the future. The pay difference is only about $500/mo over the course of 1 year there because: I'd lose a month's pay, have 1 month of COBRA expenses, and by the time I fly 85-90 here vs. 75 there and pay crashpad expenses it just isn't as much more as it seems ($57 or 63/hr there E170 or 175). Hardly worth it monetarily for the hassles IMO.

So, should I bother going there? Should I go to USAir straight from Eagle? Should I just stay at Eagle and call it a career? Truth is I'm so dang gunshy of making another wrong decision I don't know what the heck to do! Does Eagle have a reasonable future for me anytime soon? FWIW $60k is about the livable wage point for us, assuming wife at home for the kids, which I prefer. I couldn't really care less about flying a 737 vs. an EMJ. Truthfully I don't really wanna go commute to reserve at RPA, or LCC for that matter, and then get stuck junior at LCC when age 65 takes effect. I'm almost 40 and I have a hard time envisioning a 25 year commuting career, but financially I'm just not sure I can stay here and have a reasonable retirement stash. Plus, I'm a little tired of trying to salvage what seems to be a toasted career. Perhaps I need to just enjoy not commuting and wait it out to upgrade here?

Your honest thoughts and insights are appreciated. Flaming is not.

Thanks,
Swaayze

 

[LearLove]

in a nutshell I think you should keep postponing and stay parked in DFW. You'll still keep your number with US Air (I think you have about 1.5 to 2 years to put it off before they get back to you on the way up the list for the last time).

The only thing you miss by staying put is PIC at Republic. But life commuting to DCA as Reserve or bottom line holder will be hell if you have a family. If the family wasn't in the equation I'd say do the rep j4j pic thing then leave for mainline as soon as you can.

I don't have kids but if I were you I'd captilize on these younger years with them because once they are in their teens o'dad or mom isn't gonna the one they want to hang with anymore.

 

[Jakejett]

I'm almost 40 and left AE after 6.5 years to get my 121 Turbine PIC time someplace else. Competitive PIC time will vary over time but not having at least 1000 hours turbine PIC puts you in the "big stack" and now most places want it, Southwest wants more and Continental less.

You have more options with the PIC time and a chance of making a great paycheck over the next 25 years. More options means less likelihood of commuting. I live in Texas but I commute for now. What will you do in 2 or 3 years when AA is hiring and you need 1000 hours of PIC time (chance at being based in DFW)? Southwest plans on doing a lot more hiring (chance at being based at DAL or HOU). Aren't you better off as an FO at Southwest v. Eagle?

Eagle is a career job for most of the captains there so they will never have the upward movement that most other places have. If you want to slowly slug your way up to DFW EMB CA then go get a second job in DFW and wait it out. Nothing wrong with that if you want to be home with your family more. I think over time, AA will put its regional flying up for bid just like Continental did to Expressjet.

It's all a gamble because the market changes. But very few people have the chance to start out as a captain someplace so I think that is a good option if you are confident in passing the type. How long will it take you to get at least 1300 PIC Turbine?

Get the PIC time and come back to Eagle if you don't want to go back to USAir. They will be hiring for awhile.

 

[cesmaf]

Don't forget; if you're "number last" and the offer if for anything but f/o 190, it's the offer you can't refuse. And they will go through numbers faster than some are led to believe.
Good luck

 

[Hpilot]

I'd definitely bypass on LCC. The Republic(PIC) vs more time with kids is a tough one. I'd vote for more time with the family. It's easy for me to say though because I have almost 3000 121 PIC and check airman time. I'll probably be using that time to leave LCC. Best of luck on your choice. I'll end with saying family comes first.

 

[A350]

Swaayze:

Take the job with Republic.....you only have to put up with a year or two to get the 1000+ PIC and then if life still sucks and you can't put up with the commute, then you can go back to LCC. And then or at the same time, try AMR, SWA, and CAL. The way Eagle is, you will always be able to go back and get a job with them.

IMO, it looks like Republic will be getting a lot of airplanes....and if they give you a regular seniority number, perhaps you will find a place to call home in the meantime that pays the bills and won't kill you being away from home so much.

Best of luck...

A350

 

[nonstop]

You may already know this, but just in case read this thread. It's from a guy who just started working at Republic after being fired from XJT. He hasn't been paid, they don't send him home on his time off during training. They don't tell you where you'll be based, and switch your base in training to prevent paying per diem.

People like to lump "regionals" together, but I think you'll find a huge difference in the quality of operation at Eagle vs CHQ.

http://www.expressjetpilots.com/viewtopic.php?t=12583

 

[PHXFLYR]

Tough call . I would lean towards staying at Eagle for the time being mainly for family considerations.That should be your number one priority. Chasing the
flying around just for the sake of PIC time is just not worth it. And even if you do manage to get it ,where do you go from there? Its a pretty tight market right now,as you very well know.Any chance of working in the training department. Depending on the contract sometimes there is override pay involved even if you have F/O's as instructors like we do. I would say if Eagle works for you and your family and your wife supports you in your career endeavors, I would stay put, keep an eye on LCC and see how they do from a financial standpoint the next few years, bypass the 190 and enjoy "the munchkins".They grow up fast!! Good luck,and let us know what you decide.


PHXFLYR

 

[ponder]

The easiest thing to do is stay put. IMHO you wouldn't like
REP, because you have been there and done that for much
more money. You could make more at Republic IF YOU LIVED
IN BASE.
On the other hand, what would the younger "you" have done?

 

[Lear70]

I'd take the PIC time option, all things being equal.

You never know when the bottom is going to drop out OR a GREAT opportunity presents itself but requires that magic 1,000 PIC number.

You just can't replace it. Not necessarily great to "chase" it, but if it's falling in your lap like that, I'd go there, get your time, then bounce back to LCC like others have mentioned.

Yes, I'm married, have 2 kids, and sat 3 years of reserve at PCL, and just finished 8 months of reserve at AirTran, so I know what reserve is like with family, but you have to give yourself every advantage in this game you can get. The 1,000 PIC 121 Turbine mark is THE advantage you just HAVE to have.

Good luck to you,,,

 

[Quimby]

Netjets, Netjets Intl', World (home based) as other options

 

[blingair]

A little hesitant to post this on FI, but what the heck.

Can't really keep this short in order to provide adequate background, but I'll do my best...

I am furloughed USAir and recalls are getting reasonably close to me. I expect an opportunity to return there on a 737/Airbus within a year or so, or to the E190 in a few months (I will definitely bypass that initially due to low pay $46/hr). I am an Eagle EMB FO just barely able to hold a line. I came back to Eagle 10/04 (I was here 94-99) after bouncing around post 9/11 to justify moving my family back to DFW and because Eagle is a good regional job, relatively speaking. But...things here seem very cloudy, at best I'd expect a Saab upgrade in another 2-3 years IF we can recruit enough newhires to avoid AMR putting our flying out for bid by others. I don't need a ton of money but I certainly am struggling on FO pay and even SF3 CA pay would barely allow saving anything for retirement. I have small kids (twins) in Kindergarten and cherish my time home, so commuting (to reserve especially) would really be a bummer (we won't be moving anytime soon due to wife's family in the immediate area).

I have less than 1000 turbine PIC but plenty of TT. I can go to Republic as an E170/175 Captain under the Jets4Jobs program (basically like an AA flowback but at year 1 longevity and seniority). If I do that it would be strictly to book the 1300 turbine PIC before I go back to USAir, in case history re-repeats itself and I wind up on the street for a 3rd time (#2 omitted for brevity). That would give me the option of the A list jobs as well as SWA and AA in the DFW area in the future. The pay difference is only about $500/mo over the course of 1 year there because: I'd lose a month's pay, have 1 month of COBRA expenses, and by the time I fly 85-90 here vs. 75 there and pay crashpad expenses it just isn't as much more as it seems ($57 or 63/hr there E170 or 175). Hardly worth it monetarily for the hassles IMO.

So, should I bother going there? Should I go to USAir straight from Eagle? Should I just stay at Eagle and call it a career? Truth is I'm so dang gunshy of making another wrong decision I don't know what the heck to do! Does Eagle have a reasonable future for me anytime soon? FWIW $60k is about the livable wage point for us, assuming wife at home for the kids, which I prefer. I couldn't really care less about flying a 737 vs. an EMJ. Truthfully I don't really wanna go commute to reserve at RPA, or LCC for that matter, and then get stuck junior at LCC when age 65 takes effect. I'm almost 40 and I have a hard time envisioning a 25 year commuting career, but financially I'm just not sure I can stay here and have a reasonable retirement stash. Plus, I'm a little tired of trying to salvage what seems to be a toasted career. Perhaps I need to just enjoy not commuting and wait it out to upgrade here?

Your honest thoughts and insights are appreciated. Flaming is not.

Thanks,
Swaayze

I would show this post to any one considering a life as an airline pilot. Such a crazy industry.

 

[RJLooser]

I have less than 1000 turbine PIC but plenty of TT.

How much less than 1000 turbine PIC? That kind of factors in, too.

I left eagle after a little over six years to chase the PIC as well. The jury is still out as to if it was the right decision or not. The PIC has open some doors for me, however, commuting did cause a lot of problems at home in the personal life. Maybe it didn't cause them, but sure didn't help. I feel for ya, man. Good luck with the decision...

 

[Swaayze]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. As I feared y'all make good points on both sides of the argument, and that's what I can do making this a difficult choice.

I'm fully onboard with the family first plan, and I have basically spent the last 5 years making that choice first at the expense of much lost income and other job opportunites including earlier J4J Captain seats. The question is when, if ever, do I go back to devoting more time to get my career on track so I can afford retirement?

I have about 550 turbine PIC now so about a year on the line would probably check the box at 1300. I like the idea of getting the monkey off my back but is it really necessary? I think the J4J program is coming to a close so I need to do it soon if I'm gonna do it. In my mind I have to commit to mainline U to justify going, and likewise once (if) I go to RPA then I'll have committed to mainline (with the option of applying to SWA and the others in the future of course). It's also difficult to leave Eagle again because had I just stayed the first time I'd be a mid-level jet captain in DFW making close to $100k flying 2-day trips so I know what patience may bring even at Eagle (though I'm not convinced the future at Eagle is too bright with all the industry code share RFPs, Eagle unable to crew their flight hours requested from AA, and no growth or 70 seat abilities for the future).

BTW the frax were considered but for some reason 7 full days away twice a month for the next 25 years just isn't appealing. It may be silly but 4 on 3 off just seems better to me, probably just because it's the devil I know. And the younger me? Irrelevant but I'd have chased the dream, gone for the PIC and the goal of getting to the brass ring (in my case AA then, add SWA now). The brass ring jobs are now tarnished beyond belief and I'm trying to be smart enough to make better decisions not based on just fulfilling a career goal but rather on what's ultimately best for my family.

Keep the constructive thoughts coming please and thanks again.

 

[flexpilot]

Stay Put

Stay put, apply to NetJets. When you get the job, you won't have to commute and you'll be bringing home $100K within five years.

 

[LearLove]

I think the J4J program is coming to a close so I need to do it soon if I'm gonna do it.

Yes its very close to the end of offers at Rep. The next bid closes on the 13th. The number of CA slots in the bid should get all the way thru the list (down to VE at the very bottom) thus there will be no more offers (unless there is another order for more jets contracted out - God please no).

When we were learning to fly and starting out as commercial pilots we all thought that checkrides, wx and a real emergency was the wrost thing we would have to deal with. Now looking back after 10 years making a living as a pilot I'd say that flying stress stuff is nothing compared to the way "job move" type decisions weigh on your mind. Especially after your "in" the bizz and have to make a move reguarding that "God Almighty Anchor" that is the senority number.

Good luck Swayz - make your decision based on your best possible information - say alittle prayer - then sit back and let her ride.

 

[Oneflap]

Im at Republic, There is so much growth here that they are holding J4J pilots at republic even if you get called back....they need pilots. The Contract says they can do this and it really sucks for the guys getting called back. Lots of Upgrades so you can plan on being on reserve for the whole time. 90 percent of the guys I fly in with IND are J4J and all they want to do is leave. the J4J guys that were able to hold a line are now moving backwards into reserve lines because of the new upgrades and Few J4J's coming because of republic holding them for a year and a half per contract. Trust me when I say you dont want to be on reserve with our Scheduling running your life. Led by One Grand Master Scheduler that has to approve all request for anything to do with scheduling. One year here and he has not approved any request that I have ever made. I am very glad to be off reserve. Lines at Republic are imposible to commute. IND has only 540am and 630am shows, very few 1200pm shows. Ive heard the same about PIT and DCA. returns are all 900pm or later.

Im going to be honest because it will not help me or you if you come here. It would slow down my upgrade and you would be stuck in a J4J hell for a year and a half min if not longer. You would be better off if you came here from off the street and would have a line in a couple of months. I have not had a line here in the past 6 months with less than 15 days off at about 85 hours. just the opposite for reserve, DCA reserve hardly ever fly's and IND Reserve never stops and all have min 11 days off and nothing more. 1 and half hour reserve call out. I hope this helps and good luck to you where ever you go.

Good Luck,

 

[Lear70]

Stay put, apply to NetJets. When you get the job, you won't have to commute and you'll be bringing home $100K within five years.

How's that?

If I had stayed at Flex back in '99, I'd be 8 years now, still unable to hold CL left seat, and only drawing about $90k.

Plus, I'd still have to deal with RH.

 

[BenderGonzales]

He said NetJets not Flex.
The moral of the story is that there is far more out in aviation than simply airline jobs. Hop the fence to the corporate side and ditch the golden handcuffs of seniority.

 

[Lear70]

He said NetJets not Flex.
The moral of the story is that there is far more out in aviation than simply airline jobs. Hop the fence to the corporate side and ditch the golden handcuffs of seniority.

Heh heh... yes, he did. Saw the Flex in his name and missed the Net in the next paragraph.

Yes, there is more outside airline life, and I've done both (as well as Boeing cargo). I prefer knowing my schedule in advance and more days off I get here than in the fractional world, and I'm reasonably comfortable that I'll make roughly the same money (within $500,000 over a 30 year career) at my LCC than I would at NJA.

It's all about what you like to do and where your priorities are. Mine are max days home, regardless of base income (I make more money outside of aviation right now than in it). I'm running about 20 days off a month - can you do that at a Fractional consistently each month?