Hawker XP question

English

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Please forgive my ignorance, but I know nothing about the Hawker XP.

Can one safely and legally fly the Hawker XP from the East Coast to Europe with an inoperative APU?
 

757BBJ_Capt

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Safely? That's a matter of opinion. It would be nice to have that 3rd DC GEN if needed in flight, but that is just personal comfort level issue.
Legally? What does the MEL say?

I've never flown a Hawker, but from comments I hear from operators, they are a safe and reliable airplane. I personally would not make that flight, and if both Gens sign off over the Atlantic, you'll wish you didn't either. The chances/odds of that happeneing are in your favor though.

English said:
Please forgive my ignorance, but I know nothing about the Hawker XP.

Can one safely and legally fly the Hawker XP from the East Coast to Europe with an inoperative APU?
 

Gulfstream 200

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English said:
Please forgive my ignorance, but I know nothing about the Hawker XP.

Can one safely and legally fly the Hawker XP from the East Coast to Europe with an inoperative APU?

simply a MEL question. Some A/C say no flight beyond 1hr distance from a suitable aiport with APU inop..

Heck, you can fly a 152 to Europe, just depends on your comfort level.

Now, why as a pax would you fly your Hawker to Europe when Virgin First Class is about 100X more comfy...thats the question...
 

Pilot_Ryan

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Gulfstream 200 said:
Now, why as a pax would you fly your Hawker to Europe when Virgin First Class is about 100X more comfy...thats the question...
Why do they do half the things they do? They always amaze me. The owners of our 800XP have us flying empty at least 50% of the time. They think nothing of using the airplane to drop off an employee or family member somewhere, then fly home empty. They have us order hundreds of dollars of catering each flight and often don't even open the saran-wrap seal. Although we advise them of fuel prices they don't care, and think nothing of dropping over $4/gal in NY. Then when it comes to spending money on crew transportation or even their own they'll balk at spending $50/day instead of $32. Their world is very strange... I'll probably never "get" it.
 

Gulfstream 200

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Sounds about right...its the same everywhere.

Let them keep flying around, its our job and our paycheck I guess!

Who are we to ask questions!?
 

semperfido

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the MEL won't always have the answer. When it doesn't you will need to do some analysis and in the end- always leave yourself a out.

don't know much about the Hawker. No APU doesn't sound like a deal breaker though in usual situations. Have flown many times on other aircraft with APU inop. To Europe though?--i probably wouldn't want to start a trip in that condition nor would i fly across an ocean if it was part of my backup plan. What will an APU in a Hawker do for you? I don't know the answer to that question either.
 
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English

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My friend just interviewed for a position where the curent flight crew is being fired for not flying their aircraft to Europe because of an inop APU. Neither of us know anything about the Hawker so we are trying to determine if the owner is a reasonable person to work for. It seemed a little harsh to me that the owner was just outright firing both of his current crewmembers.
 

Gulfstream 200

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English said:
My friend just interviewed for a position where the curent flight crew is being fired for not flying their aircraft to Europe because of an inop APU. Neither of us know anything about the Hawker so we are trying to determine if the owner is a reasonable person to work for. It seemed a little harsh to me that the owner was just outright firing both of his current crewmembers.

thats about all one needs to know about that job. <<click>>
 

Flying Illini

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English said:
My friend just interviewed for a position where the curent flight crew is being fired for not flying their aircraft to Europe because of an inop APU. Neither of us know anything about the Hawker so we are trying to determine if the owner is a reasonable person to work for. It seemed a little harsh to me that the owner was just outright firing both of his current crewmembers.
I hope those crew members are able to find other jobs quickly. Getting fired b/c of safety concerns (for themselves AND the owner) is a pretty raw deal.

Tell your friend to be careful.
 

PseudoName

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Flying Illini said:
Getting fired b/c of safety concerns (for themselves AND the owner) is a pretty raw deal.

No it isn't. They got fired because they were stupid. The crew should know better than try to be a bunch of hot dogs going across the Atlantic with an inop APU. I know most owners would can their crew if they caught them flying the airplane in a condition that was unsafe.....I would if I was an owner!

Hawker XP APU provides power for electrical system and if need be, air conditioning for the cabin. Maybe I ask for too much, however, an operative APU for an Atlantic crossing is required equipment for me.
 

English

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PseudoName,

I think you misunderstood my comment. They were fired because they WOULDN'T take the aircraft to Europe with an INOP APU. The owner happened to mention the incident to a mechanic, who told him it was perfectly safe to fly the aircraft on a trip like that with an inop APU. So, now the owner thinks the pilots were screwing with him.
 

PseudoName

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English said:
PseudoName,

I think you misunderstood my comment. They were fired because they WOULDN'T take the aircraft to Europe with an INOP APU. The owner happened to mention the incident to a mechanic, who told him it was perfectly safe to fly the aircraft on a trip like that with an inop APU. So, now the owner thinks the pilots were screwing with him.
Thanks English for correcting me. I guess I should know better than getting on flightinfo in the morning without first having the morning joe.

Where is this Hawker based.....I think the word needs to get out about this owner.
 

Flying Illini

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Insert foot in mouth, pseudo. :D
 

Clutch_Cargo

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Wow, I'd say that's a bit harsh alright! Maybe there is more to it than we know. The MEL doesn't require the APU, I can tell you that much. There were a number of different APU's installed on the 800/800XP and only one of them, the Garrett -150/-150W is certified for use inflight. And even then, not all installations of that APU are approved for inflight use. Also some installations have STC's that only allow for emergency use inflight. I've only flown straight 800's so I can't say for sure but I believe all the XP's have the -150 or -150W installed and can be used inflight. So while not required, it might be nice to have or depending on what you consider safe, a must have. I'd guess that is something of a tough sell when other 800's don't even have the capability to operate their APU's inflight but you have to do what you think is right.
 

750driver

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English said:
PseudoName,

The owner happened to mention the incident to a mechanic, who told him it was perfectly safe to fly the aircraft on a trip like that with an inop APU. So, now the owner thinks the pilots were screwing with him.
That's the first problem ...the mechanic is simply answering the question. Yes, it probably would be safe to make the flight from a mechanical standpoint.

The crew however, is thinking what if I lose a generator. Now I'm down to only one gen for the blue water op. The owner doesn't see the big picture. Personally, I would avoid this job, but that's my personal opinion.
 

English

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Yep, it had red flag all over it to me, too.
 

h25b

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As for the Hawker 800/XP APU's, the 800A's with the Solar APU can be used for emergencies only and the 800A's and 800XP's with the Garrett APU's can be used anytime you want although I think you have to get down pretty low for them to start (15,000 ft. comes to mind).
 

BOZO

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I hope that owner has a tough time finding another crew to screw over. One word comes to mind about your friend interviewing for that job....NEXT!!! I wouldn't even give that owner the time of day...imho.
 

Bandit60

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h25b said:
As for the Hawker 800/XP APU's, the 800A's with the Solar APU can be used for emergencies only and the 800A's and 800XP's with the Garrett APU's can be used anytime you want although I think you have to get down pretty low for them to start (15,000 ft. comes to mind).
Just to correct it. It can be started below 20000ft and a inflight start is prohibited with a dual gen failure.
 
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