Hawker XP question

[HawkerF/O]

That's the first problem ...the mechanic is simply answering the question. Yes, it probably would be safe to make the flight from a mechanical standpoint.

The crew however, is thinking what if I lose a generator. Now I'm down to only one gen for the blue water op. The owner doesn't see the big picture. Personally, I would avoid this job, but that's my personal opinion.

Thank you! 750 is exactly right. That mechanic was speaking on a subject that exceeded the scope of his knowledge; Flight Operations. That mechanic would be the 1st to tell you, "Oh, it's within limits, I'm not going to fix it." All the while 1/2 the LH window has delammed and it looks horrible (just an example as I am not famaliar with this operator). He knew exactly what he was doing when he said that A/C was safe to fly. To further the cause, by admitting the airplane was not safe to fly the mechanic would be indicting his own work I'm sure. You should post his name to we can be on the look out. Mechanics don't think like pilots and pilots don't think like mechanics. Especially with Hawkers; all those relays and old technology (though it tends to work well, but if they don't fly frequently, you're asking for problems) Some people are not satisfied unless they have a foot square up their A$%.

 

[h25b]

Just to correct it. It can be started below 20000ft and a inflight start is prohibited with a dual gen failure.

Is that 20000' number for the Garrett or Solar APU's? I could have sworn that the Solars were 15000'. Amazing how fast you can brain dump this stuff.

At any rate, I am not sure that you'd be descending down that far to try and light the APU. They always said that if you had a double generator failure that you don't want to eat up whatever battery power you have left trying to start the APU. Who knows, big gamble...

Bottom line is that the Hawker is not a good airplane for crossing water. I used to run in to guys at Wilmington, DE FSI that took their Hawker to Hawaii from SFO one a year.

 

[Flechas]

I secon everybody here, tellyour friend not to take that job, the owner doesn'tknow his ass from his head.

 

[Bandit60]

Is that 20000' number for the Garrett or Solar APU's? I could have sworn that the Solars were 15000'. Amazing how fast you can brain dump this stuff.

At any rate, I am not sure that you'd be descending down that far to try and light the APU. They always said that if you had a double generator failure that you don't want to eat up whatever battery power you have left trying to start the APU. Who knows, big gamble...

Bottom line is that the Hawker is not a good airplane for crossing water. I used to run in to guys at Wilmington, DE FSI that took their Hawker to Hawaii from SFO one a year.

My bad. I was talking about the Garrett APU. (20000ft).

Some operators are not putting on the Winglets so they can do Hawaii. It gives them a little better range with better fuel economy. But I might have to agree it still isnt the best for the over water operation. The good thing about the hawker is that it is so mechanical (instead of electrical) that with losing dual generators it is better than most airplanes. (if losing dual gens could be good at all?)

 

[unclematty]

700 Solar= Limited to 15,000', 270 KTS, Electricty Only, No Bleed Air, Placarded Emergency Use Only.

700 Garrett= No in-flight use, auto shut down at WOW.

800 Solar=See Above

800 Garrett=See Above

800 XP=some early XP's have a Garrett that is not approved for inflight use. Most XP's have the -150. Limited to 20,000 for starting and 30,000 for operation.
Do not atempt to start APU if both main (engine) generators are failed. This is a published limitation.

Do keep in mind a Hawker will not cross the Atlantic via the tracks. I know, I know the hawaii argument, but take a look at the wet footprint.

 

[FracCapt]

It doesn't matter what you do with the Hawker 800XP, it cannot do a Hawaii trip without a wet footprint. Period. Tell your friend that if he takes the job he needs to negotiate for swimming lessons as part of his compensation....because he may need to be a damn good swimmer.

You can't even do the NAT's in an XP without a wet footpring....you're stuck with the Blue Spruce routes. Screw that. A Hawker is not designed for long overwater flights.

 

[Snakum]

Please excuse my considerable newbie ig'nunce ...

What is the "wet footprint" for a given aircraft? I've heard the term used when talking about several types of aircraft that are used to fly to Hawaii (800XP, G100, etc.). My assumption is that when looking at the numbers, if everything doesn't go exactly according to plan (winds not as forecast, fuel flow not book, etc.) you then have a "wet footprint", as in ... "You can fly an 800XP to Hawaii if everything goes perfect, but if not you will be swimming."

Izzat what we're talking about?

Minhberg the Baby Baron FO

 

[h25b]

The wet footprint is basically the portion of the route in a given aircraft where if for some reason you had to descend out of altitude for any reason you would not be able to make landfall due to increased fuel-flow at the lower altitude...

In a Hawker for example you have about 6 hours of flight time at LRC. But that's counting on being up high. My personal longest leg was about 5 hrs. 50 min. in the thing.

 

[Snakum]

Ahhhhh .... thanks h25b.

Say, when can I come over your way and see the Lear? Maybe put a dab of kerosene behind my ears and make whistling noises while sitting in the left-hand seat.

That's about as close as I'll ever get to flying a Lear.


Minhberg the Jewish Pig Farmer

 

[capt_zman]

Flown both the 800A and Xp's across the atlantic over 100 times. The 800A apu will not light in flight, so in essence, you don't have an APU. The xp is limited as stated above.

As for tracks, i've flown the xp out of gander and cork/shannon on the tracks all the time without a wet footprint.

 

[Stealthh21]

Why do they do half the things they do? They always amaze me. The owners of our 800XP have us flying empty at least 50% of the time. They think nothing of using the airplane to drop off an employee or family member somewhere, then fly home empty. They have us order hundreds of dollars of catering each flight and often don't even open the saran-wrap seal. Although we advise them of fuel prices they don't care, and think nothing of dropping over $4/gal in NY. Then when it comes to spending money on crew transportation or even their own they'll balk at spending $50/day instead of $32. Their world is very strange... I'll probably never "get" it.

Well part of it is that they can write it off as a business expence!!!

 

[h25b]

Ahhhhh .... thanks h25b.

Say, when can I come over your way and see the Lear? Maybe put a dab of kerosene behind my ears and make whistling noises while sitting in the left-hand seat.

That's about as close as I'll ever get to flying a Lear.


Minhberg the Jewish Pig Farmer

Come over any time you want, I'll even make the whistling noises for you...

Send me a PM with some contact info... I might have a lead for you.