Hawker to Hawaii?

[OState597]

Hello to all...

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with a Hawker 800A from SFO to Hawaii? (destination island not known). We've converted it to what they now call a Hawker 800SP (special performance) due to the Av.Partners blended winglets, which saves me about 7% fuel savings.

I'm quite aware of the wet footprint issue and all the etc's that apply and the "what if's" that could occur. I'm just looking for anyone thats done it and can recall your landing fuel, headwinds going west, time of year you did it and so on.

Anything helps, thanks!

 

[xrated]

No experience in doing it in a Hawker but if it isn't obvious and you can't find the info from the manufacture, sounds like a bad idea to me. I think you have the wrong airplane for the job.

 

[guido411]

This news release was also referenced in November BCA magazine

http://newsroom.hawkerbeechcraft.co...s-etops-exemption-for-mid-size-hawker-models/

You're posting in corporate forum so I'm assuming you're part 91 so you can do what you want but HBC seems to think it should be possible even for Part 135. FAA can make the final call on that later. Do you have long range O2 bottle? Will that support crew and pax in event of loss of pressurization? From what (little) I know about the 800/900 Hawkers that may be the limiting factor and NOT planning for an engine failure.

I know of at least one 900XP that has done it severall times.

 

[say again]

The 7% savings is over the course of what? Are you talking monetary or range?

 

[FORE LEFT]

I used to do it in a straight 800A (Part 135 air ambulance), but not in the winter. We went to Cold Bay Alaska and down from there in the winter. We had the Aviation Partners winglets and always had a dry footprint. I will say, it was close a few times though.

 

[OState597]

The 7% savings is over the course of what? Are you talking monetary or range?

The winglets cut fuel consumption by 7%, which amounts to about 180nm extra. Here's the sales pitch: http://www.aviationpartners.com/hawker.html

Believe me, I'm not letting aviation partners talk me into anything, which is why Im eager to read any personal experiences here.

 

[jet2work]

Call and talk to a pilot at Air Med. They do it all the time from what I understand. I'm amazed at the places they go in a Hawker (fine aircraft - but not really designed for transoceanic). Here's the contact info. I do have friends that have done it in a Hawker before out of KOAK or KSFO. It is not like flying the NAT tracks where you are stuck at an altitude and a Mach number. You can get altitude changes to take advantage of performance and winds. With all the ADS-C equipped aircraft out there, your wind data should be pretty good (from Universal, Arinc, Jepp, etc.).

http://www.airmed.com/home/

Toll free: 800-356-2161

If you are curious, here is a link to where they have been in a Hawker.
http://www.airmed.com/why-airmed/where-we-have-been.cfm

 

[TransMach]

Hawker to Hawaii

Remember that for 135 you can't be more than 180 minutes from a diversionary airport, single engine or develope an ETOPS (ER) program and get it approved. California to the islands (using Santa Barbara and Maui) that means you have to be faster than 375 knots TAS single engine and I don't think a Hawker can do that.

TransMach

 

[FORE LEFT]

I used to fly for AirMed international. We flew 800A's from Oakland to Maui and HNL, but only in the summertime and sometimes not even then. I can't recall the max head wind now, but we would routinely go to Cold Bay Alaska and come down from there. The Hawker with the Aviation partners winglets can be ETOPS compliant but will never be ETOPS certified.

 

[hawkerflyer]

We evaluated the leg in our 800A with the API winglets and ultimately decided against it. We replaced our SP this year with an 850 and we're still not comfortable with it. Anything over a 60/65 kt headwind was a no go and the only way to do it was with supplemental o2. It's just really not the airplane for it, regardless of what HBC or API say. The only Hawker I'd even consider using is the 900XP. There was an operator in SDL who did it quite often in an 800XP without any problems. He studied the numbers backwards, forwards, left and right and had planned for literally any contingency. I guess it all depends on your comfort zone. I would also try to get a hold of an AirMed guy, they seem to be a reputable operator and fly their SPs all around the world.