Hawaiian recalls?

[Sleepyhead]

Now that HAL has exited BK, is there any info on when they might start recalling?

 

[plucky]

II know that they have hired back 15-20 FA's in the last couple weeks. They need the planes and new sched's to bring back the pilots.

Really would like to see the pilots brought back soon.

 

[islandhopper]

Now that HAL has exited BK, is there any info on when they might start recalling?

I spoke with a friend of mine at HAL.. Their plan supposedly is not to do anything really it appears until they see what happens to Aloha. That's the most interesting info I got but...

Some other interesting tidbits of info...
Furlough letters at HAL are only good for 6 years, they would probably be renewed if it went past that, but if mgmt wanted to "start fresh" they could start letting guys go if this stretches another two years. Yes, some guys been furloughed now 4 years... (Wow... I guess it has been that long). Retirements average about 8 a year for the next 5 years. I was reminded Hawaiian went from having the oldest fleet of airplanes in the USA to having the newest in just about 2 years time. They are having a hard time finding more 767's, they wish they didnt give back the two during BK. As for any ideas that many of the furloughees would or would not come back, the feeling is most all of them WILL come back, as the way it was explained to me only like 5 out of the entire 98 dont seem to want to come back...

 

[Irish Pilot]

Got 5 furloughed Hawiian guys at work...all hoping to go back to work within 1 years time...I hope it works out for them. All stellar guys.

 

[Jim]

Actually the longest anyone has been on furlough is since January 2003 or about 2 1/2 years. There were 20 of us furloughed right after 9/11/2001, but we were recalled and re-furloughed. There was 1 from the original furlough who did not come back due to military reserve call up, but I think he was considered recalled and re-furloughed. However, he was 54 years old in July 2001 during our new hire class so I do not know if he will ever come back even if recalled prior to age 60.

There are many rumors going around about a "big announcement" soon. Supposedly there have been many meetings in the last week or so and the 2nd quarter results are being withheld to be released with this announcement. The Chief Pilot told more than one pilot that "you will like it"....whatever that means.

If there are no additional planes, we can expect 10 to 20 recalls next spring to cover attrition due to retirements and medicals. At that time, it would cover a 2 year period since the last recalls.

2 of the things generating rumors are that the 717 long-range ferry tanks have been broken out by maintenance and are getting attention. This usually does not happen unless a 717 is getting ready for a flight to the coast. Since we are not getting rid of any and all the maintnenace is done inhouse, this leaves only a couple of options - all positive. The 2nd is that maintenance has obtained an additional couple of 767 ACARS sets and printers and that these are being tweaked. Again this leads to the conclusion that there are more planes coming for them to be used in. We are not having ACARS problems on the existing planes so....

But remeber, this is all rumor based on what a furloughed guy stuck in Vegas with limited HAL contact is hearing. I am remaining hopeful, but I also know all previous rumors have proven false.

I do not think management is waiting for Aloha to crash or recover. They are waiting for planes that are compatible with our fleet. I was told from a union rep that all the existing used 767s that have been looked at so far would have lease rates higher than new ones by the time they were reconfigured. Further, management does not want to lease new ones because of the required 20+ year leases. They want to be able to go to the 787 or another aircraft without having to worry about 20+ year leases. HAL has hired a guy whose job is to travel the world looking at 767s as they become available. Also, getting 757s instead is an option, but it would take a very good deal with a minimum of 6 or 7 planes to have it finacially doable due to the required spare parts inventory (supposedly only 15-20% compatible parts with the 767).

Bottomline is that I am cautiously optimistic that I will be recalled within the next 2 years, hopefully sooner. Out CEO has stated numerous times to the press and employees that we need expansion to continue to succeed financially. He has stated that we need more frequency to the west coast (especially California) markets, we need to go to the east coast and that Asia is a prime market for us. He has also stated that although it does not seem so when looking solely at load factor, our Austrailian flight is making big bucks due to the cargo it carries. He want to increase those flights too.

Ranch Capital's game plan when they started bidding on us in bankruptcy was to double our size in a 5 or so years. Over the 12-18 months it took for them to actually get control, fuel has risen dramatically. Ranch still says they want to double the fleet size, but at a slightly slower rate. Only time will tell if they are being truthful or not.

 

[HAL]

Furlough letters at HAL are only good for 6 years, they would probably be renewed if it went past that, but if mgmt wanted to "start fresh" they could start letting guys go if this stretches another two years. Yes, some guys been furloughed now 4 years... (Wow... I guess it has been that long).

Actually the contract states that your furlough period can be up to double your time of service at HA, with a minimum of six years. Therefore the guys with four years that are on furlough have eight years of furlough available.

Retirements average about 8 a year for the next 5 years.

The current numbers are:
2005: 8
2006: 13
2007: 18
2008: 15
2009: 16
2010: 10

As for any ideas that many of the furloughees would or would not come back, the feeling is most all of them WILL come back, as the way it was explained to me only like 5 out of the entire 98 dont seem to want to come back...

Just wondering where you heard that?

HAL

 

[mdanno808]

I had heard that Hawaiian had letters of intent to lease 2 767's. In the last week or so, the leasing company raised the prices on these two planes, and Hawaiian backed out. Don't know how much of this is true, but I heard it from a few different guys. Our MEC was also quoted in this month's ALPA magazine as saying there will be absolutely no recalls throughout the winter.

 

[mdanno808]

A classmate of mine was also offered a job at Evergreen, who wanted him to sign a 2 year contract. He contacted the chief pilot who told him that in his opinion, he would not need to worry about being recalled during that time period. This happened about 2 months ago. He is roughly fifty numbers from the top.

 

[FlickerFade]

Jeez "DM" why don't you just give his name.

 

[mdanno808]

Jeez "JM" I can see you've given up flying for detective work. I can assure you the individual in question wouldn't care if I had used his name. In fact I talked to him yesterday. I was simply trying to show that the CP told a person 50 from the top that he would not be recalled within the next two years. The person to whom I was referring to also mentioned to me that Evergreen was continuing to hire if you're interested. How have you been? Hope all is well, and hopefully I'll see you in the lounge in the next decade or so. Aloha. BTW, did you get the survey?

 

[FlickerFade]

Hey Dman,


I'm hoping to be able to try for that interview soon. I just tried to call our friend too, it has been a few days since we've talked.

This string has given a pretty accurate synopsis of where things stand at HAL. Too bad if the latest 2 767 rumor has faded. I am encouraged to have a shot at flying the 787 in the future possibly.

Hope we'll get to sit in a Fort Koapaka classroom soon.

Yes, I took part in the HAL survey. I was impressed by the CEO's response to him re: the survey.

Aloha,

J

 

[HA pilot]

Lots of secrecy surrounding upcoming big announcement, confidentiality agreements for senior vp's, not just your new route kind of announcement. One rumor has it the HA/AQ merger may be on again to facilitate a smooth transition to an interisland monopoly, i.e., dusting off of 717 ferry tanks, Banmillers revised employment contract and HA's inability to expand transpac due to lack of A/C. Doesn't seem likely, or does it?

 

[FlickerFade]

Ah yes, these types of rumors are the fodder that fuel our vivid imaginations.

Who knows, at this point I'd accept DOH with Aloha and be done with it. Anyone know their seniority list #'s pre and post 2001?? I know that this is the pattern: we hear a rumor, debate it to death, then it never happens.

J

 

[HA pilot]

How true.

 

[HAL]

Who knows, at this point I'd accept DOH with Aloha and be done with it.

Be careful what you wish for. In ALPA mergers DOH almost never happens. Those of us on furlough would most likely be placed below anyone currently working at Aloha, including those hired after we were furloughed.

For instance look at the probable AWA - USAirways merger. There is no way a furloughed USA guy will replace a currently working AWA pilot with 6 months seniority, even though the furloughee has 17 years under his belt. It's ALPA policy and hard to get around.

Let's hope that is one rumor that bites the dust.

HAL

 

[Erndogg]

One rumor has it the HA/AQ merger may be on again to facilitate a smooth transition to an interisland monopoly, i.e., dusting off of 717 ferry tanks

IMHO I dont think that HA is looking into a merger at this point and the focus is on the Transpac/intl side. (getting more 767's). If any thing happens in the interisle market we do not plan on getting that many 717's-if there is a capacity shortfall (interisle seats will continue to decline in future).

The focus should be non stop to the outer islands and slowly intergrating it to our interisle operations. I would not be surprised if we dont get any 717's at all!!! The ferry tanks could be A/C due for C checks in the mainland.

We all just got to sit back and see what this BIG announcement is. Hopefully it involves acquiring more 767's and new flying so our guys can get back soon.

 

[mdanno808]

Ok, I've been all over the internet, the FCIS, Hangar Talk, and besides the "acars printers and ferry tanks sightings" I haven't found any evidence that a big announcement is coming. Where are you guys getting this information from?

 

[Sleepyhead]

Well just to add to the rumor mill... about 2 weeks ago I heard that Banmiller approached HAL and talked about a merger.

FlickerFade

There are about 100 pilots hired at AQ since Jan 2001.

 

[Whale Rider]

The chances of a HAL/AQ merger is about as good as you getting hit by a bus.

 

[Dan Roman]

Talked to Seavy a week ago and, as everyone has been saying, that an anouncement was pending that should make the employee's happy. He did say that Dunkerly said it was NOT more aircraft. However, he confirmed that we have "letters of intent" in for 2 767's. They are ex UAL planes. As was said earlier, they want more aircraft, but only if they make good sense. A rumor is floating around about 717's in LAS. Apparently that IS a possibility. Some anouncement's possible seem to be profit sharing checks, a code share in Austalia is pending could be it to. Not exactly earth shattering, but I think like so many "big anouncement" rumors, they tend to get a lot bigger than intended before they come out.
One you won't here is any merger with AQ. They don't want AQ to go away. I know for a fact that Dunkerly hopes they survive and that HAL being the only inter-island jet carrier opens the door for more competition, not less. So would a merger. Hawaiian has a good inter-island operation that is profitable, they don't need to be bigger and they definetly don't want a mixed fleet with old 737's added (no offense). If they want more flying they can add 717's and use our employee's. Hawaiian is primarily a Trans Pac carrier. They want more 767's as there is a lot they can do. Again, no offense to the Aloha folks, but AQ's Trans Pac operation doesn't do anything for HAL. HAL dosn't need to fly to OAK or JWA.
HAL has proven that with the right aircraft AQ could be succesful, my guess is an investor will come along and buy AQ and get appropriate aircraft for their routes and turn it into a profitable airline.