Hater in the House!

[350DRIVER]

It doesn't matter why you're still flying. If you're too old to get out and you have resigned yourselves to "suffering" in this business for the rest of your working lives, don't you think your life would be more enjoyable if you didn't complain about it so much. If you're stuck with it then you may as well enjoy it as much as you can or at least find other things to do in your free time which will enable you to suffer silently while you're at work. Nobody owes you anything and it's too bad you feel stuck in a job you hate. But get over it. Nobody likes a whiner!

It has little if anything to do with complaining and everything to do with the "reality" of this industry, which you seem to not want to figure into the equation. I love your optimistic opinions, ideas, and postings but the bottom line is that this industry is what it is, nothing more and nothing less. You nor I will be able to change that. Open your eyes and take a look around at this industry present day and be a little more open minded. When did I ever say I was "owed" anything?.

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[Gulfstream 200]

Basically you have all proven my theory. Despite how sh!tty you think the job is, you love flying and don't quit because you know that you won't enjoy another job as much. If this isn't true then you would have quit long ago. And for all of you who are claiming to just be informing newcomers about the industry, do that. However, list facts and not opinions. If you think this industry sucks, and you wouldn't do it again, that is your opinion. There are plenty others out there who disagree with you. It would be a shame to discourage someone who is really excited about becoming a pilot because your experience jaded you so much. Let them know the facts and they can make an informed decision of their own.

If someone really lets an internet message board discourage them from their dreams --

then they are a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**in moron and too sensitive to make it past year one in the aviation industry anyways.



Your "theory" is right? Everyone just biatches and nobody leaves the industry?
Is it that easy just to switch careers?
sure....just hop out there and find another 6 figure salary just like that..

I dont think you get the point...by the time you get a little burned out on flying you are in it too far. Again, it IS a good job, but there are many better...by better I mean in terms of stability and pay - (2 things that become important when you grow up)

Once your woody from flying a jet sags and your mom is no longer impressed when you come home in your poly dork suit -- reality starts to set in.

If you are lucky (I am) you may find one of the FEW decent flying jobs and make enough to support a middle class lifestyle and give yourself plenty of time ot persue hobbies....cheap hobbies....because that all you are going to be able to afford-- if you are lucky that is.

And please dont think I am just a grouchy old burned out pilot....Im not TOO old yet.....I graduated high school in the 90's.

 

[Justino]

Ahhh Yes,


That is why I am getting my Masters of Science after all. Just in case the $hit hits the fan for me I have another option. A way out if you may is important no matter what endeavor you elect. True I am young, but naive, umm thats a bit far for me. I have done the 135 flying, CFI gigs and AF stuff. I am only 26 but well versed in what the future holds. 17K yes I am aware, no more 200K to sit on my A$$ at UAL, well thats 4 sure. I do know that flying a desk sucks, I have worked in National Security for awhile, can't comment to what I did but most people would say "wow thats cool you must have so much fun" Well it all boils down to a 8-10 job dealing with small incidentals that make up a big picture which will never be complete. That is why I am flying, cause it is fun, dynamic, and a good group of people like yourselves to converse with. I would rather make less flying then make more in an office where I can't talk about what I do with anyone.



C yah

 

[learflyer]

If I were to do it all over again, I would start at UPS at 22 yrs old throwing boxes and washing trucks and waiting for a drivers slot to open up. I would fly for fun on the side. Heck, I'm 32 yrs old and still thinking about doing this!! I run into these drivers alot and most seem happy. I know they make alot more than pilots do!! Does anyone know fedex or UPS drivers? Are they happy? It's just my timing has sucked in this industry. I'm stuck at a fractional going on year 5 in the right seat with still no upgrade in sight!!

 

[atrdriver]

350, Did you feel like this in the 90's when things were going great? This is a cyclical industry, and while things are bad right now, they will get better. There are too many Americans who expect and want to fly for the industry to go away. I agree that there isn't much stability right now, but no one was saying that when the times were good...

As for job security, while we don't have a lot of it, go ask someone who has been "downsized" how they felt about their job security. Like everything else, cycles come and go, and where we are in the cycle determines to a large extent how people feel about their jobs, lives, etc. As for me, I have had a non aviation career, as well as this one...I would never go back by choice.

atrdriver

 

[belchfire]

Like artists when we try to
do something we love for a
living it looses something.
This is why I will never take
a job as a porn star.

 

[Floyd94]

I think it's interesting that most career changers say they'd never look back to their former lives in the 9-5 workforce, whereas those who have only flown for a career and never done anything else are the ones saying to get out and do something else for "more money."

I strongly agree with this statement as I am/was a career changer. Usually the more vocal ones are the ones that have never seen a 9-5 type job. All they see is greener grass on the other side of the fence.

 

[flyer172r]

I'm sure a lot of people stick with aviation because of the thousands upon thousands of dollars they spent to get their ratings in the first place.

 

[belchfire]

"One of the great things about
flying solo is the quality of the
social experience"

You must have a really shi++y
crewroom!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I can tell you most I know (including myself) would never have gotten involved in this "game"/"industry" if they could re-write history and do it all again given what they know now.

I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[atrdriver]

I'm sure a lot of people stick with aviation because of the thousands upon thousands of dollars they spent to get their ratings in the first place.

I walked away from a good paying job where I had 17 years seniority. If I wasn't happy in aviation I would leave like I left the last job. The money I spent on ratings and such are irrevelevent. The only thing that factors in to is keeping my instructor ratings alive, although I am not currently using them...I figure I spent the time and money on them, I might as well keep the certificate active...

atrdriver

 

[Skyrtr]

I think it's interesting that most career changers say they'd never look back to their former lives in the 9-5 workforce, whereas those who have only flown for a career and never done anything else are the ones saying to get out and do something else for "more money."

Absolutely the exact same thing I've noticed. I think that the career-changers feel more control over their situations, and those locked into aviation feel more helpless/trapped. I made the move to professional flying in August of 2001! Great timing, huh? I was flying for a decade prior, and I never could face the paycut until I took the plunge a few years ago. Before I changed, I had plenty of money and no satisfaction (GOD, can career management types in big corporations make you hate your job. Meeting after pointless meeting and a veal-calf cubicle to go to every day). I made more than 100k some years, and I miss it. Wish I'd saved some more of it. I still have to work part-time in my old profession in addition to the full-time instructing job to pay the bills. However, I DO NOT MISS MY OLD LIFE. I had more free time, more money and a predictable schedule, but I could never face 30 more years behind a computer.

Everyone's reality is different. We examine our lives through warped lenses (some a bit too rosy, and others a bit too dusty).

 

[CASHMAN797]

Industry

People often forget how much of a roller coaster the industry has ALWAYS been. Pilots at airlines such as Brantiff, Eastern, and Pan Am to name a few were left jobless and on the street after their airlines vanished into bankruptcy. The oil crisis in the seventies and economic downturn in the 1980s also left pilots at airlines like American out on furlough for half a decade. People that think that the industy was stable before 9/11 have not taken a step back to analyze the history of this industry. The industry is seeing a slight recovery at the moment, but since history repeats itself, there will only be a limited time window before the industry heads for a nose dive and more pilots are back in the food stamp line because they had only one source of income.

 

[FlyChicaga]

I believe it was avbug that once said, "There are lucrative careers and rewarding ones, and they are not necessarily the same." So true.

My sim instructor here is 57 1/2 with 23,000 hrs. Flown at 6 airlines. Been Chief Pilot at some, been VP of Operations at some, done training at some. Has had 23 professional flying jobs. Flown the bush in Alaska, corporate/charter, and airlines. Nothing really over the regional level. But I can tell he loves this stuff. I envy him. Maybe he's avbug but won't say...

 

[Northern Lights]

So those of you that switched to flying from another career, how old were you when you made the switch?

Also, for 350, was wondering what your age is. From previous posts I thought that you might only be about 25, which seems young enough to go to med school and have a nice long career as a doctor. I might be wrong, just curious.

On another note, what is the divorce rate for pilots, and how many have left flying to save the family?

 

[350DRIVER]

I believe it was avbug that once said, "There are lucrative careers and rewarding ones, and they are not necessarily the same." So true.

My sim instructor here is 57 1/2 with 23,000 hrs. Flown at 6 airlines. Been Chief Pilot at some, been VP of Operations at some, done training at some. Has had 23 professional flying jobs. Flown the bush in Alaska, corporate/charter, and airlines. Nothing really over the regional level. But I can tell he loves this stuff. I envy him. Maybe he's avbug but won't say...

Not to be a smart @ss, but I can assure you avbug surely ain't no sim instructor at ExpressJet. He will probably jump through the screen if he even comes across this thread.

Northern,

You are pretty close although this 27th of Oct. is quickly approaching so that number will increase. The thought has surely crossed my mind on more than one occasion and that possibility hasn't been ruled out just yet. Once you invest a lot of time, money, experience, jobs, etc, within one industry walking away is not always as easy as it sounds though my friend.


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[AviatorTx]

It doesn't matter why you're still flying. If you're too old to get out and you have resigned yourselves to "suffering" in this business for the rest of your working lives, don't you think your life would be more enjoyable if you didn't complain about it so much. If you're stuck with it then you may as well enjoy it as much as you can or at least find other things to do in your free time which will enable you to suffer silently while you're at work. Nobody owes you anything and it's too bad you feel stuck in a job you hate. But get over it. Nobody likes a whiner!

OK, I'll bite.

Look... YOU asked. I answered, as honestly as I can. You can call it whining, whatever. The one point that nobody can seem to successfully argue against though is the fact that this industry will NEVER be what it once was. What it WAS, is the reason that many of us came here. You calling me a whiner, or me calling you a golden sperm prodigy, will not get us anywhere.

Now, if you like it for what it is now, and you think you can be happy in this career for the rest of your life... knock yourself out. There is really one way to find out. Try it for yourself. Ten years from now, you will know whether or not you made the right decision.

Some learn by reading...

Some learn by watching....

Some actually have to pee on the electric fence themselves...

 

[350DRIVER]

OK, I'll bite.

Look... YOU asked. I answered, as honestly as I can. You can call it whining, whatever. The one point that nobody can seem to successfully argue against though is the fact that this industry will NEVER be what it once was. What it WAS, is the reason that many of us came here. You calling me a whiner, or me calling you a golden sperm prodigy, will not get us anywhere.

Now, if you like it for what it is now, and you think you can be happy in this career for the rest of your life... knock yourself out. There is really one way to find out. Try it for yourself. Ten years from now, you will know whether or not you made the right decision.

Some learn by reading...

Some learn by watching....

Some actually have to pee on the electric fence themselves...

Some will also believe in false logic and only see the distorted picture that they choose to paint. It is a useless cause Tx, some will always ignore the reality of the matter that does not seem to fit their agenda.

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[FN FAL]

So those of you that switched to flying from another career, how old were you when you made the switch?

Also, for 350, was wondering what your age is. From previous posts I thought that you might only be about 25, which seems young enough to go to med school and have a nice long career as a doctor. I might be wrong, just curious.

On another note, what is the divorce rate for pilots, and how many have left flying to save the family?

Switched to aviation as a career at 32...

I have been through at least 4 distinct career changes in my life. It's nice knowing that If I want to step out of aviation, I can always make some decent money because of my work experience. It means my employer doesn't hold me hostage.

 

[taxicabdriver]

I think I'm gonna change my name to Buck Naked and be a porno actor.