Hangar Ettiquet

Moonfly201

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Question for the pilot population. I keep my plane in a t-hangar that shares a common taxiway with another row of t-hangers, parallel to mine and directly across.

Next to my hanger, there are two small Bell turbo helicopters, and directly across from the Bells is an old Bell 47 located in the other row of t-hangars, so they share the same common taxiway that meets between their driveways. All three helicopters are operated by the same business, which offers training, charter, Santa Claus deliveries etc. The training includes renting helicopters to newly soloed students.

On nice weekend days I used to enjoy opening my hangar door and washing, wiping, changing the oil and socializing. Now that "Chopper World" has moved in as neighbors I have to constantly close my big door every time they leave or return, and can only open it again after they have cooled their engine down and shut down. When I am not down at the airport, dirt and dryed grass is blown into my hangar by the hovering outside my door which forces this debris under the door seal.

I am normally a tolerant person, and have not caused a rukus until today. One of their pilots was returning from giving a young couple a sightseeing ride. As he hovered next to the buildings I started closing the big door, and he proceeded to hover taxi right past before the door was halfway down, and knock the crap out of everything inside my hangar, plus the usual dirt and grass.

After he took photos of the couple sitting inside the Bell 47, I walked over and told him at least the owner waits until the door is down, what's his problem. He tells me he won't charge for blowing out my hangar. I told him that the proximity of helicopters to the buildings, fuel trucks and light aircraft when sitting outside is a hazard, and I will be talking to the airport manager about it on Monday. And that I was generally pissed about the constant operations on the ramp.

Later, the owner comes down and basically tells me that there is nothing illegal about helicopter operations between the hangars, that the FAA rents from him and flys the turbines off the common taxiway. I asked about dollys, and he says they are dangerous and he will not use them. His suggestion is that I either keep my door closed all the time, or move. There is nothing he will do as "business is business".

Thoughts would be appreciated.
 

((7))

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Leave your garden hose outside for Mr. Chopper A$$wipe to become acquanted with after you wash your machine. Not a pretty sight a Chopper and a loose garden hose.
 
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AHHAAH,

I bet it would have felt real good to punch that jerk in the mouth after he said he didn't charge you for blowing out your hangar.
 

GravityHater

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Cant you park your old beater pickup about 20 feet out front of your hangar?

Sp Police: its "etiquette"
 

FN FAL

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Document, document, document...sue. Buy a video camera and sit back in the weeds. Sooner or later a jerk like that will provide you with a real boner.
 

avbug

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A friend got tired of having an agency pilot overfly his aircraft every day, in a helicopter. He warned them and warned them. One day the aircraft overflew ours, and touched down aobut 30' away. He calmly walked over, opened the door, grabbed the right seater out by the throat, dragged him off into the grass, and had a meeting of the minds. They never overflew us again, and were a whole lot more respectful in the future.

Another helicopter instructor had a habit of doing quick stops in front of us, where we were tied down alongside a taxiway. He'd do slow flight over the top, and was warned again and again. My friend contacted him on the radio and asked how well the helicopter would handle having a chain thrown up in the rotor next time. The helicopter didn't come back.

The secret is don't bluff. My friend wasn't kidding.

Civility only goes so far. After that, it's purely a matter of getting their attention. Failing that, never back down from a bluff. It only strengthens the other party's position.

I'd certainly bring it to the attention of the airport manager. I run across small time pipsqueak operators all the time who pull that line about renting or leasing to the "government." As though that makes any difference, and as though you're supposed to be intimidated or even care. Make it a point to learn what agency and office is using their services, and enlighten a representative from that agency about their indiscretions. They may find they don't have quite the friend they thought, in that agency.

It's a shame that these operators behave in this manner. After all, everybody has to get along. I'm sure you do your part to ensure the ramp is clear of FOD, in order to protect them. It would be a real tragedy if grass clippings, sand, and all manner of FOD were all over that ramp while they do their operations there. Or if you parked your truck or other equipment out on the taxiway while you take our time sweeping out your hangar, next time. Or if you were to mistakenly do run ups pointed back at their hangars and equipment.

I'd hate to think that you might be listening to gangster rap with your hangar door open and a new 32 speaker sound system, while they're dealing with students and clients next door, or that you might leave such a system hooked up to a motion detector that only turns on when they're outside on the ramp. That would be unfortunate, indeed. Of course, if you were to borrow a wrecked helicopter and store it outside your door on a trailer for a while, just until you figure out what to do with it, their students and clients wouldn't ever notice, and I'm sure your neighbors wouldn't mind.

That sort of thing is good for business.

Luckily you're a tolerant person who minds your own business and does your part to make everyone feel welcome. That way when the FAA comes to perform ramp checks after a tipoff that compass cards are missing out of those helicopters, or that a passenger has seen little plastic baggies protruding from under seats, you'll have nothing to offer but a kind word and perhaps some lemonade. But that's just the kind person that you are.


I'm not that tolerant. There's just no substitute for a bad-breath-in-your-face rundown of potential physical ailments and family history in various shades of blue, accompanied by the color draining from one's audience's pale skin, to ensure that the message gets through and gets remembered.

Talk is okay until it's no longer okay, but then the nicities are over. Reality television is popular. It's just that too many people don't remember what reality really is. Explain it to them. If they don't understand, show them. If they don't understand, help them learn. There's no such thing as a message that won't be heard...it's just a matter of finding the proper method of delivery.

Good luck!
 

Huggyu2

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Making threats to injure them or damage their aircraft? You gottal be kidding me.
Video, document,... hell, even place stuff around that will break or get damaged and video it happening. Also, a letter from an attorney (on appropriate letterhead) will often do more than anything else you can try.
 

avbug

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Making threats to injure them or damage their aircraft? You gottal be kidding me.
Perhaps you misunderstood. People do that.
 

sky37d

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Huggyu2 said:
Also, a letter from an attorney (on appropriate letterhead) will often do more than anything else you can try.
Attorneys are for wimps.:puke: Kicking ass is for real men.:uzi:

Where I live, my hangar is on the common road/taxi way. Someone wanted to buy a lot, farther from the runway, and it would have meant him hovering down the road in his Jet Ranger, to get to the runway. We who live there, brought it to the attention of the airport manager, saying we would be less than happy about that stuff. The prospective purchaser decided to live somewhere else.
 

sky37d

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avbug said:
Perhaps you misunderstood. People do that.
yeah, the guy who hovers in front of your hangar, is damaging your stuff.
:uzi:

Maybe you should pull your plane out of the hangar, and do your run-up with the tail facing their helicopter when they are trying to load passengers
 

FlyFlyFly

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A DeWalt 18v cordless drill and a 2" Auger will make a modification to the rotor blade that will prevent it from blowing dirt into your hangar. Just don't forget to flag it with a big red bandana and a "Thank You" card from all his loving neighbors...
 

Moonfly201

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I just spent an hour with the airport manager who assures me something will be done. He feels the dollys are a solution, and there is a paved pad close by where these guys can operate without obstructing the taxiways. He also says in his opinion, rotary guys are overconfident and an accident waiting to happen. Now I'll wait a little and see what happens.

I too am not adverse to mild violence, but can't have any witnesses.

Anyone know of a balled-up helicopter wreck located in the mid-atlantic region? I will plop it on the automobile side of the hanger where this guys customers are parking their cars on my side. In the meantime, some of their tires' Schrader Valves could possibly turn up missing.

Good stuff, thank you all for the suggestions.
 

Spooky 1

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Moonfly201 said:
I just spent an hour with the airport manager who assures me something will be done. He feels the dollys are a solution, and there is a paved pad close by where these guys can operate without obstructing the taxiways. He also says in his opinion, rotary guys are overconfident and an accident waiting to happen. Now I'll wait a little and see what happens.

I too am not adverse to mild violence, but can't have any witnesses.

Anyone know of a balled-up helicopter wreck located in the mid-atlantic region? I will plop it on the automobile side of the hanger where this guys customers are parking their cars on my side. In the meantime, some of their tires' Schrader Valves could possibly turn up missing.

Good stuff, thank you all for the suggestions.
I feel your anger and agree with your frustration, but I am not so sure I would be having this discussion in a public forum. This jerk goes out and kills himself or some passenger and you find yourself under suspicion for dinking with his helicopter. BTW, I think this might be a federal offense these days. I am suprised that Avbug, the voice of experience would join in this approach to justice.
 

avbug

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I too am not adverse to mild violence, but can't have any witnesses.

Anyone know of a balled-up helicopter wreck located in the mid-atlantic region? I will plop it on the automobile side of the hanger where this guys customers are parking their cars on my side. In the meantime, some of their tires' Schrader Valves could possibly turn up missing.

Good stuff, thank you all for the suggestions.
Don't count me among those manking such suggestions. I believe I specifically stated that such things would be unfortunate and potentially tragic, and that it's very fortunate you're too nice a person to do such things. I certainly never advocated them.

Now that you've posted admissions publically as to your intent, including violence and sabotage, if you're smart you'll safely back as far away from those areas as you can. You just sealed your own conviction.

BTW, I think this might be a federal offense these days.
You are oh-so-correct, sir!

I am suprised that Avbug, the voice of experience would join in this approach to justice.
I make no such advocacy, and have stated as much more than once, now. One may read into those comments whatever one might, yet one might well be mistaken in one's perception thereof.

I said nothing about justice.

I spoke to results. Justice is generally a judgement away from a checkbook, and has little to do with results.

I believe I stated that such things would be indeed unfortunate. I stated that a personal chat is my favored method, but that any of the previously named conditions, to include natural flaws on the ramp surface, would be most unfortunate. I also noted that based on the respondants initial post, he is clearly too nice a person to do anything but pour lemonade for visiting officials.

I also cited events which based on actual results and experience, have resulted in a desired effect. I am an advocate of peace and civility, and settling things with a handshake.

In the daylight.

I also recognize that civility has it's limits, negotiation has it's bounds, and being a gentleman is good and well so long as results are not paramount and one is content to be a martyr at the feet of the alter to Miss Manners.

Most importantly I recognize the one universal truth: there is no such thing as a fair fight.
 

Moonfly201

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avbug said:
Now that you've posted admissions publically as to your intent, including violence and sabotage, if you're smart you'll safely back as far away from those areas as you can. You just sealed your own conviction.
No intent anywhere in this thread. Just speculation and fond memories of "frontier justice" ... days when lawyers were not needed to equalize injustice.
 

avbug

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No intent anywhere in this thread.
I too am not adverse to mild violence, but can't have any witnesses.

In the meantime, some of their tires' Schrader Valves could possibly turn up missing.
I think you should probably leave it in the hands of the airport manager, and let it go at that.

fond memories of "frontier justice" ... days when lawyers were not needed to equalize injustice.
You remember that?
 
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avbug

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I think New York quit being a frontier sometime in the early 1700's...

Then again, perhaps rather than the airport manager you might prefer going to the Gotti's or some other latest-greatest east coast powerhouse of all-things illegal. I don't know that I'd consider illegal criminal acts as "justice," and I can't recall a time or place in recent history that ever justified "frontier justice." Then again, I can't recall a time or place in recent history when a frontier existed in the US. I think you're stretching. A lot.

Let the airport manager work out the details. If you do otherwise, you're going to get yourself in a lot of trouble, quite possibly get yourself or someone else hurt, and you're only going to make things worse.

Most important of all, lose that notion of "justice" right now. Justice heralds some mentality of "putting things right" or making things "even," and that's a dangerous path to follow. It's subjective, it is deeply weighted toward your own wants and viewpoints, and offers you no recourse or protection except to always take it to the next level...invariably a place that you don't want to go and if you're smart, are not willing to accept.
 
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