HAL neos in 2018?

[Microclimates]

buried in a memo called corporate priorities it seems as though the timeline for the neos is now 2018... thoughts?

 

[Jim]

There were always supposed to start coming in the second half of 2017 so I don't see this as much of a change. It'll take a few months once the first one arrives to get everything up to speed.

If past history is any indication, we'll start hiring in mid 2016 for these planes.

What is being delayed is the A330neo. Originally we were to start getting the A350-800s in 2017. The replacement A330neo aircraft won't start coming until 2019. But this delay is due to Airbus, not Hawaiian.

 

[HAL]

Original delivery date for the first 321NEO was right at the end of Q3 2017 (end of Sept). A few months slippage is pretty normal for these things. There is always the possibility of finding a leasing company with earlier slots and getting a couple that way too. And even in 2017 the best we were going to do was 2 aircraft. We'll be growing soon, no matter when they arrive.

HAL

 

[BentOver]

We'll be growing soon, no matter when they arrive.

HAL

Raising the min day guarantee will help with that..


Anything not resembling an increase in the 4.14 ( or whatever it is off the top of my head) is a NO vote for me....

We work more days than many regionals... I know I work way more than I did at OH in the early 2000's... Almost a full week more at times....

 

[BentOver]

buried in a memo called corporate priorities it seems as though the timeline for the neos is now 2018... thoughts?

Do you have a reference for that? Haven't seen it

 

[Flywithmike]

It's on the front page of the flight division website.

 

[gearjockey]

Does this delay upgrades a few years? I heard the upgrade was about 10-12 years for folks hired in 2012.

 

[Flywithmike]

According to the latest simulcast on corporate priorities, we are still on track to receive the A321 NEOs as planned starting in 2017.

 

[sk00tar]

Does this delay upgrades a few years? I heard the upgrade was about 10-12 years for folks hired in 2012.

Is it that high?

 

[fly4surf]

Tell you in 7-9 years.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Are the NEOs growth aircraft or are they parking something else?

 

[mdanno808]

They'll be parking the 767's, and who knows how it will affect the 717 flying. If the NEO's pick up peak interisland flying prior to the transpac leg, you can plan on a bunch of 717's being parked. Also, with interisland demand dropping as we implement outerisland flying to the west coast, I would plan on staffing on a dedicated interisland aircraft to be drastically cut. There will be growth, but not the degree that people are talking about.

 

[Jim]

Numerically, when all is done we will have more 330s then 767s. The plan has always been to park the 767s so I don't think they count in this instance. Also, the 330s came faster than the 767s were retired so that staffing is already complete.

The fleet plans show all the NEOs as growth. I agree they will take some flying from the 717s but I don't see a significant reduction. Plus there are 6 growth 330NEOs coming in the middle of the 321NEO expansion.

I agree there will be some cuts in the dedicated interisland aircraft/staffing but I don't think it will be drastic. the FAR 117 rules won't allow much more than two interisland flights for the 321s prior to heading off to the mainland. And with the idea of outer-island to mainland flights, the inbound interisland legs will still need a return. The timing would be very difficult without the 717s in the mix.

Only time will tell what actually happens and there is not much we can do about fleet plans. But we can do something about our contract and that is where we need to work this problem.

 

[BentOver]

Based on all the charts/propaganda we were shown.... The fleet plan called for something around 70 a/c when all said and done in 2020... ( exact numbers are 2 years removed from my memory)


That is roughly between 840-920 pilots.... We have 620ish on property now..

Anyone on the list by 2012 should either be a narrow body jr. Captain or a senior widebody 330 FO...

I am with Jim, the contract is key... Min daily rig will add the need for more pilots. Pay and QOL increases will make being a long term widebody FO more of an option.

I'd love to be a Captain quick, but pay me close to narrow body Captain pay while doing choice trips on the 330... And I'd have something to think about...

 

[atpcliff]

We don't want any new planes with HAL in the cockpit....looked what he did in 2001!!!

My motto is NO AI in aircraft cockpits!!!

 

[FLYN4LVE]

We don't want any new planes with HAL in the cockpit....looked what he did in 2001!!!

My motto is NO AI in aircraft cockpits!!!

.....what the heck are you talking about? Don't be so cryptic.

 

[HowardBorden]

.....what the heck are you talking about? Don't be so cryptic.

I believe he was making a tongue in cheek reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey. The artificial intelligence antagonist in the movie was named HAL.

It's official, I'm old.

 

[atpcliff]

HAL was the AI (Artificial Intelligence) computer that was designed to "assist" the astronauts in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. HAL instead tried to kill the astronauts, which is similar to "assisting", but different.

Lately, there have been a lot of concerns about AI, and what happens when machines get smarter than humans.

On a similar note: I read that in about 45 years you will able to have sex with a "robot"...the kicker is you won't be able to tell the difference from the real thing...civil rights questions and the right to marry problems will follow...

 

[BentOver]

HAL was the AI (Artificial Intelligence) computer that was designed to "assist" the astronauts in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. HAL instead tried to kill the astronauts, which is similar to "assisting", but different.

Lately, there have been a lot of concerns about AI, and what happens when machines get smarter than humans.

On a similar note: I read that in about 45 years you will able to have sex with a "robot"...the kicker is you won't be able to tell the difference from the real thing...civil rights questions and the right to marry problems will follow...

Interesting thread drift

 

[jmt]

Just heard that HAL is hiring 6 more pilots….

 

[xjhawk]

When will they know if its for the 717 or 330?

 

[BentOver]

It is for the expected KOA-HND approval....

Pulling from the remaining 50 who already interviewed this winter. If the route does not materialize, those selected(6) will be told to prepare for the first new hire class that comes along( probably 2016? Is my guess)


Hope it works out. HAL has been after this slot for awhile now.... We would serve it as well as anyone.....


We also placed a person in a leadership role for the NEO arrivals... They can't get here soon enough.... Alaskan has had too much lead time to develop their route structure... We need to catch up.

 

[fly4surf]

Add the Virgin article this week also with the same plane, but sooner deliveries to beat us also!
Come on 321! Maybe we get lucky and lease some early like the 330?

 

[Flywithmike]

I heard the planes delivered this year will be the curent engine option plane with sharklets, not the A321NEO that we plan on using.

 

[Jim]

No 321NEOs are schedule before the end of 2017. The planes this year are more 330s.

 

[Squirrel29]

Only 9 767's left on the property right now with the last 3 of the A330's arriving this year. No clue on the 767 retirement timeline but supposedly plus 1 on aircraft growth this year.

Can't really see the A321NEOs replace 717's even with direct flights to outer island flights. What they will do is help reallocate the A330's from flying West Coast Flying and expanding service to longer range flights either Asia or Conus.

2018-2022 expansion will be interesting to see how they use all of the A321neos.

 

[washout]

Everything I've read about the current A321 (never flown one) is that the wing is too small and it's a pig. Same wing as 319/320 if I'm not mistaken.

Granted the A321neo will have more thrust than the current A321, but does anyone know if the wing will be redesigned on the A321neo? I haven't been able to find this on my own.

 

[two(2)%]

Mahalo HAL pilots:

I hope those NEO's really wow-em. HAL seems like a wonderful job. Are you planning on addressing the low first yr pay in the next contract? I wouldn't mind working there but it seems very difficult either moving or commuting to the highest cost of living city in the US. On the same note, how do most pilots do it?

Thanks

 

[Flywithmike]

No 321NEOs are schedule before the end of 2017. The planes this year are more 330s.

I wasn't very clear. I was referring to the planes that Virgin America are getting this year, not Hawaiian.

 

[BentOver]

Mahalo HAL pilots:

I hope those NEO's really wow-em. HAL seems like a wonderful job. Are you planning on addressing the low first yr pay in the next contract? I wouldn't mind working there but it seems very difficult either moving or commuting to the highest cost of living city in the US. On the same note, how do most pilots do it?

Thanks

Have had plenty of conversations about the upcoming contract with other pilots.... Honestly first year pay has never come up.... Not saying it shouldn't be raised, but IMO it's more of a " we did it and you can too"

I did it with a non working wife, kid in preschool$$, a mortgage payment in Hawaii, and all the student loans, car payments that went along with a previous $100k/ yr job before taking that first year pay hit.....plus my wife refused to eliminate her IPhone, cable, or anything else... ( whole different story I could talk hours about!!!)

I burned through every cent I had, with maybe 2 months of $$ left before we would have been totally broke... In 2 months we would have been upside down.... Luckily it worked out with a plan and a budget...

It can be done...just have a plan ....commuting first year, reducing bills, getting a personal loan, selling a high priced house if ya have one... It's a really easy job if ya figure out how to make it through year 1...