HAL hiring

[redflyer65]

HAL market cap of 748 million. Alaska market cap of 6.5 billion.

Things that make you wonder.

 

[xjhawk]

Thanks for the good words GL! I would never ask for a rec from someone I did not know, it just would not seem right. I would hope that at least one of the former XJ guys might throw one my way when the time is right. I am also doing a little research to see if any of my former instructors at Petrides aviation are at Hawaiian. Granted it was in the mid 90's when I flew there, but hey, one never knows right! One could only hope to work at Hawaiian and for that matter, Delta as both companies seem poised for a great future!

 

[Dan Roman]

HAL market cap of 748 million. Alaska market cap of 6.5 billion.

Things that make you wonder.

Only if reality is a difficult issue for you! A relatively small International AirBus operation in the middle of the Pacific could not be a more polarized match for what AK has been doing to make them successful. Hawaiian fits into AK's business plan like water and Gasoline. In fact, DAL would jump on AK even harder if they were so foolish. It would be disastrous for HA and AK. A good example would be USAir and Piedmont, two successful airlines that got ruined when they merged two completely different types of airlines. The people making the decisions at AK know a lot more than you and I. Even I know that it wouldn't work, almost as much as SWA thinking a hub in HNL would be a good way to expand!

 

[Dan Roman]

Thanks for the good words GL! I would never ask for a rec from someone I did not know, it just would not seem right. I would hope that at least one of the former XJ guys might throw one my way when the time is right. I am also doing a little research to see if any of my former instructors at Petrides aviation are at Hawaiian. Granted it was in the mid 90's when I flew there, but hey, one never knows right! One could only hope to work at Hawaiian and for that matter, Delta as both companies seem poised for a great future!

The key XJ is perseverance. I've heard all kinds of stories how people got hired, but the majority just kept trying. Good luck and don't give up if that's what you want. As I said, we are going to hire a lot, if you don't give up and really want to fly for for HA the odds are strongly in your favor.

 

[redflyer65]

Dan,

I wasn't pointing out that Alaska would buy HA, although it's possible.

But, that Hawaiian is a cheap company...for anyone to buy. 700 million? Now I can see why Hawaiian would be an easy purchase. Successful purchase? Might be a different story, who knows.

A little bit harder for someone to buy Alaska outright. Probably the only way would be a merger for stock transaction.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan,

I wasn't pointing out that Alaska would buy HA, although it's possible.

But, that Hawaiian is a cheap company...for anyone to buy. 700 million? Now I can see why Hawaiian would be an easy purchase. Successful purchase? Might be a different story, who knows.

A little bit harder for someone to buy Alaska outright. Probably the only way would be a merger for stock transaction.

Fair enough, I misunderstood your post. :beer:You are right, we are cheap relative to what we do. It's always a worry. But the reality is, Hawaiian is only worth anything if it's "Hawaiian". Paint another name on the side of the airplane and allow mainland airlines flight attendants to start flying our trips and the value of the purchase goes way down.

 

[Dan Roman]

Ask Wave, he'll tell you I'm a little sensitive in that area!

 

[waveflyer]

Very good discussion here indeed. Micro, Nethan, as I said YOUR input, coming from the RJ world is very important new blood brought to the table. So don't take anything I say as countering you ( I flew for the original Allegheny Commuter and remember when it was a huge deal for USAir to go from 15 seat turboprops to 30 seat turboprops!)
My take is that the inter island flying is mostly now and always will be heavily traveled and warrant larger than 36 seat turboprops. There are markets that don't justify 717's.... LNY, JHM, MKK ( we did use to fly LNY and MKK with a DC -9-50. Still have fond memories of shooting a VOR app to MKK's 4500' rwy!)
But we can 't justify flying the thin markets with a 717. I maintain we are better served by serving the entire inter island traffic flow. I.E. someone in LNY should be able to seamlessly connect to our entire route system. The turboprop flying we do now feeds mainline, creates jobs more than takes jobs and doesn't cross that line that the mainland carriers did when they allowed 50 % of the domestic travel be outsourced to RJ's. I'm blown away that Brian Bedford and his ilk ordered large jets thinking he can use them, it's ALPA's job to stop that crap. At least DAL seems to be slowing turning the tide.
Anyway, I'm getting pretty long winded here, but I'll just say we need to pay close attention to this issue contract 2015 and I hope you guys stay involved. Despite my comment defending us old guys, you are the future and the future lies with you, there is a lot to be learned from what we went through but it's more important to look forward not back.

Why can't Hawaiian pilots fly those turboprops, Dan?

 

[waveflyer]

Fair enough, I misunderstood your post. :beer:You are right, we are cheap relative to what we do. It's always a worry. But the reality is, Hawaiian is only worth anything if it's "Hawaiian". Paint another name on the side of the airplane and allow mainland airlines flight attendants to start flying our trips and the value of the purchase goes way down.

It's my favorite post!

And I actually think it could work

HAWAIIAN AIRLINESoperated by Southwest

C'mon dan, it'll be fun - you keep your identity, and have the solid financials of SWA backing it up

 

[waveflyer]

Ask Wave, he'll tell you I'm a little sensitive in that area!

I have absolutely no idea what areas you're sensitive in Dan.

 

[Dan Roman]

Why can't Hawaiian pilots fly those turboprops, Dan?

The down side of just putting the turboprop pilots on the list is you would have to freeze pilots in the seats. Don't think many would want to sit in the rt seat of it when new hires junior to them are flying the 717/A330 or 767. It also puts pressure on the 717 flying if Hawaiian has the option of unlimited use of the turboprop fleet.

 

[Dan Roman]

We had DHC7 pilots inter island. You could make a good argument it put downward pressure on the DC9 pay at the time.

 

[waveflyer]

Your turboprop is wholly owned is it not?
You don't think that'll put downward pressure on things?

This has all been done Dan- why go down the same road spitting out the same arguments that led to all the outsourcing in the mainland?

 

[xjhawk]

When the window opens up again, I will be sure to have my application in ASAP! I have been craving some Local food for years

 

[Jim]

Your turboprop is wholly owned is it not?
You don't think that'll put downward pressure on things?

This has all been done Dan- why go down the same road spitting out the same arguments that led to all the outsourcing in the mainland?

We own the planes, do the reservations, bags, boparding, etc. Empire is contracted to do the flying and maintenance.

 

[Jim]

Why can't Hawaiian pilots fly those turboprops, Dan?

Because as I said early, if we hadn't agreed to a subsidiary last contract, the flying would have been done by a code share with HA pilots having no minimum interisland hours protections. We tightened the scope. The company would not have given up what they already had and there was no way HA pilots were going to be flying these routes.

We understand the pitfalls of subsidary/code share flying and we'd like to eliminate them. But the cat has been long out of the bag and we're realists about what we can get back. We're trying but it's only one piece of the puzzle and there are many other equally important considerations.

You live in a dream world Wave, after of course having flown for the same type of operations you berate others for allowing prior to getting your SWA gig. We made scope gains the last contract without really losing anything. But you will just continue to pick on others scabs about something your current airline already had BEFORE you joined it. You're not trying to stimulate discussions with your constant "holy than thou" stance, you're doing nothing but taking cheap shots.

 

[redflyer65]

Jim,

Great post about what happened at HA. Some of that I did not know.

Just like you may not know we've tightened scope EVEN more after Wave and I got on the property. So it goes both ways.

I don't see Hawaiian being anywhere close to other airlines that outsourced thousands of jobs back in the day when it was uncalled for. We need to all move the ball forward and get better. There's always room for improvement and I'm happy to see it happen at other carriers.

RF

 

[HAL]

Dan,

I wasn't pointing out that Alaska would buy HA, although it's possible.

But, that Hawaiian is a cheap company...for anyone to buy. 700 million? Now I can see why Hawaiian would be an easy purchase. Successful purchase? Might be a different story, who knows.

A little bit harder for someone to buy Alaska outright. Probably the only way would be a merger for stock transaction.

Red, when was the last time a company was bought strictly for the value of its outstanding stock? Pretty much never. The fact is that in the M & A world there's far more to a company's valuation than just stock price. And that is why HA hasn't been bought yet, because the stock price has little to do with the value of a company in a purchase. If HA were to be bought, it would cost the prospective purchaser much more than $700M. Then with that additional cost, the returns on the investment (after trying to adapt the HA business model to whichever airline was trying to buy it) would come out somewhere in negative territory. As Dan has said many times here, the HA business model just doesn't work for anyone other than HA. Take that away, and it becomes another expensive hole in the wallet of whoever bought us, with no chance of a return on the investment.

HAL

 

[redflyer65]

I think you're trying to make an argument to fit what you want to happen. I think HA gets purchased. Does it cost more than 700 million? Sure. But not much more. You'd have to dig into the balance sheet to look at the debt, but still it's out there like a ripe plum. So your right. Not just the value of the stock, but the purchase price. And Gary Kelly might see it as a good deal

I'm starting to think Southwest might make a play. That's just pure speculation on my part. And it has nothing to do with where I work, just a guess. Southwest has always liked good bargains, and HA is a bargain plain and simple. Even if I'm wrong, I see someone else stepping in and doing the same. At a little more than 700 million, there are plenty of players. Delta, Alaska, and even American after they get their merger worked out. I'd put American at the low end. Maybe 35/1. They need to get their house in order. Same could be said about SW, but we are further along. DL would just have to work around the DOJ.

I know it might not be what you want to hear, but I find it more than plausible. I understand HA has a great product and one to be proud of, but that doesn't mean it's not a takeover target. We are talking business and nothing more. Not feel good, warm and fuzzy stuff. Just business. And when you look at it that way you can see things differently. And CEO's many times think that way. They run the numbers and make decisions accordingly.

I think SW will buy someone else. With 3 Billion in the bank, who's the best deal?

JetBlue? Maybe. The planes don't match up at all, but NYC is attractive.
Frontier/Virgin/Spirit? Again, wrong planes and too small of a acquisition.
Alaska? Too expensive, unless it's more a merger with stock swap. But still possible.
Hawaiian? Inexpensive and SW could easily feed the widebodies from multiple points in the CONUS..and add widebodies to points beyond. I find it the most intriguing.

Either way, going to be interesting to watch it play out.

 

[Dan Roman]

Hawaiian? Inexpensive and SW could easily feed the widebodies from multiple points in the CONUS..and add widebodies to points beyond. I find it the most intriguing.

Either way, going to be interesting to watch it play out.

Not true, again Hawaiians business plan is as a hub in HNL, it doesn't connect to SWA or any other mainland route system very well. It also get's a lot of business because it's "Hawaiian". Paint SWA on the side of the airplane and allow SWA F/A's to replace ours and you lose a LOT of what has made us successful.Same with DAL or AMR or any other mainland airline.

HAL made some great points and YOU responded with a perception based more on what you thought was a good idea rather than any basis in reality. For years and years there have been pilots that thought HA would be a dream aquisistion, the money people that make that kind of decision never seem to consider it.