So the numbers I posted where not shot into a ballistics gel? Excuse me that's odd how could they have come to that number? So if the Sig has the highest penetration and equal expansion of a .40 SW it is still worse though than anything else? I mean if anything is ignorant it sounds like your argument that Doc's test is the end all of this whole matter. His post has very little detail on the argument. Nowhere in his link does he say which weapon it was fired from or its corresponding barrel lengths. (Barrel Length makes a huge difference) 4.5in have shown 600 lb/ft of energy.