Gulfstream

[mckpickle]

Ok you want something constructive. YOu are about to spend a crap load of money, and when you get out in six months you still wont get hired anywhere. At least not at places that are hiring now. Ie ACA comair. Why, because everyone else has a butt load more time than you do. So now here you are a crap load of money in debt and no REAL prospects of a job. 500-600 hours will barley get you a flight instructing job right now. IMO you should start instructing, traffic watch, fire patroll, general airport slut, to build your Total Time up. Then if the airlines start hiring again you can always go to Gulfstream(insert nick-name here) and get the multi you need.

Im just afraid that you'll blow all that money then 250 hours later I dont think you'll have a better chance at a job that now.

On a side note, cant someone throw this guy a bone so he doesn't give money to the enemy???

 

[Superfueler]

I'm already an airport slut, aside from working for an FBO, I work part time for a corporate flight department. There aren't any jobs to be had around here. Yeah, I could CFI, but the prospect of flying around for 8 hours a day wedged into a C152 with a smelly high school kid hell bent on killing me doesn't really give me a boner. I figured getting 250 hours of twin turbine time would put me in a much better position to whore myself out to some job that doesn't involve smelly high school kids. It could even help me use my contacts around here to get a job. None of them will hire me without any experence.

I see why you airline guys object to this type of training, but the airline industry is changing. The days of airline pilots making $250,000 grand a year is going to go away, and unions will start to lose their power once non-union, and 'smart union' places like jetBlue, Freedom, and SWA start putting union controlled airlines like USAir and UAL at the bottom of the pile. More and more people are going to use places like Gulfstream to get their feet in the door, no matter how much the 'good ol' boys' scream and cry. Rememeber, there were plenty of people 30 years ago that wouldn't fly with a woman or a person of a different race......

 

[skypine69]

Ahhhh.....at last the truth comes out! You dont want to fly around 8 hours a day with some smelly high school kid in a 152. Well i have news for you: A whole ton of other people have done it so why shouldt you? Being a pilot is not easy. It involves learning and doing things that you may not want to do. Like the other guy said, 250 hours in a 1900 isnt going to get you squat right now. You would be better off flying that 8 hours a day in a 152. If you do that you will be up around 100 hours a month. In less than a year you will have 1000 more hours of flight time and look much more attractive to local flight departments.

If you are looking for someone to justify your spending however much GS charges you will not find it here. It sounds like you are going to do it no matter what people say, but at least you cant say you were not warned of the dangers in doing so!

 

[D8drvr]

My two cents.

I hate pay for training. I think ALPA dropped the ball by not making it a priority that ALPA have a say in all airline hiring. If that were the case then UAL ALPA or Delta ALPAcould say they will not hire anyone who has been involved with pay for training carrier. This would have killed pay for training long ago, there would be no future in it. Ah, in a perfect world........

However, this did not happen.

There will be no problems with you being hired anywhere with Gulfstream on your resume. Don't let anyone fool you. You will need competative times in general (I don't think 250 of B1900 will give you all the time you need) of say 1500tt/500multi/1000pic.

So I guess I agree that it may be too soon for you to spend that money (really I wish you wouldn't at all), but it won't hurt your career in the long term.

 

[Mu2Driver]

How about the Air Force?
Do you have a B.S. Degree?
If so why not try for an OCS pilot slot?--that will give you some experiecnce not just hours
The military is probably a much better option than paying all that money for 250 hours. You actually get a decent salary and benefits and can retire at 20 years then go straight to the majors after that (if they are still around). It doesn't make sense to me to pay something like 2x what a type rating costs and get nothing but some SIC in return.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

I have heard nothing but horror stories about Gulfstream Intl. Theyre aircraft are ragged old 1900's. They have crap routes. And all you would do is blow thousands to sit in the right seat, put the gear up, call V1 and rotate once in a while, throw bags, and if your lucky maybe get to put the plane into ground fine if your mains don't blow out after hitting hard on the runway. Get your commercial, get your degree, flight instruct or go kiss some butt to get a job flying traffic watch or banner tow, get PIC time and then hit the market. 250hrs turbine SIC isn't gonna help too much, multi is good but its Gulfstream. PFT is frowned upon from what I have heard. Get paid to fly, don't pay for it.

 

[nimtz]

The days of airline pilots making $250,000 grand a year is going to go away, and unions will start to lose their power once non-union, and 'smart union' places like jetBlue, Freedom, and SWA start putting union controlled airlines like USAir and UAL at the bottom of the pile. More and more people are going to use places like Gulfstream to get their feet in the door, no matter how much the 'good ol' boys' scream and cry.

You are young, naive, and quite frankly stupid. Do you think this industry hasn't been through this garbage before. Ever hear of People Express? How about Air Florida? The majors have struggled before in the face of low cost competitors and have always come through in the years ahead. It's the economy stupid!?!
As far as 'smart unions' comment, get a clue man. Before I got into this business I thought unions were worthless too, but try spending a few months on the line and then tell me you don't need a union in your corner. Your attitude scares me when I consider that my union is in contract talks trying to break the long cycle of pathetic pay at the regional level. If we go on strike the company might try to break it by bringing in scabs. I could see some punk like you cr*pping his pants to fly an rj for 16K. Hey you might even pay them 15K for that!
Go ahead and go to Gulfstream and waste 19K. Then when they dump you on the street after you get 250 hours the only jobs you'll find would involve "the prospect of flying around for 8 hours a day wedged into a C152 with a smelly high school kid hell bent on killing you."

 

[chperplt]

I don't like the GS program anymore than most, but I just love reading 800 hour pilots talking to 400 hour pilots like they have 10,000 hours and years of airline experience.

The fact is 99% of you don't have a clue what goes on down there. I only know about GS from the 4 or 5 ex GS FOs I fly with. The 1900 might be an old airplane (as far as cycles and hours go), but how do you know how ragged they are? How many times have you flown them? Why are their routes crap?? I think they have some pretty decent routes for a 1900. How do you know that all FOs do is play with the radio and pull the gear? Everyone I've talked to says it's an equal FP-NFP routine.

It's one thing to talk negatively about the merits of the program you disagree with, but don't make cr@p up about the place just so your message looks better to you.

 

[hyper]

Sounds like you are already set on Gulfscream, you would just like someone to say it's a good deal. That's a decision you'll have to make. You aren't going to get anybody here to back you up. We all respect (well, most of us) our place in the field. Companies like Gulfscream are the armpit stains of the industry and as long as they fool folks like you, they will be around and will provide initiative for like companies.

I say, go for it. But when your finished, do us all a favor and give us a pirep. Paying for your training and just buying hours provides no substance to your experience or career. Remember that the Cheif Pilots and line pilots that are conducting the interviews that you may get probably didn't just pay for their place in the world. More than likely they worked hard for it and they have experiences to share along the way that molded their skills and character. That's something that other pilots look up to. That's something they're going to want to see in an applicant. That's something that $22k plunked down for a few hours pulling gear in a turbine will never buy.

 

[Superfueler]

Wow look at all the posts I missed while doing something constructive!

skypine69:
I know being a pilot isn't easy, pretty much all of aviation is tough. I've worked line service the past 6 years, and the only reason I am still there making crap money is because I love aviation.

Mu2Driver:
I have my BS, but I also have glasses, so that route is out.

Lrjtcaptain:
chperplt spoke for me.

nimitz:
Thank you for the name calling, thats very mature. If UAL and USAir (and DAL and and and...) were not hindered by their unions, they would be in much better shape than they are now. Yeah yeah, just a young punk, sure. I was in a union at one point in my career, and I was much worse off than I am now, in a non-union shop. I also have a business degree, so I am smart enough to look beyond my paycheck, and see the bigger picture. I'm sure the unions do some good, such as with duty times, and other safety stuff, but when they drag a airline to the bottom because of greed, they do more harm than good.

hyper:
I am not already set on GS. I am exploring all my options, and I wanted to find out more info about GS. The reason I have not come out and said "gee guys, you are all so right" is because no one here seems to be using facts, just the moral arguement about paying for a job.

 

[altimaklr]

I disagree that having Gulfstream on the resume isn't a job killer. A lot of interviews are a combination of HR/ line pilots... If I was a line pilot doing the interview, I'd take one look, smile, and send you on your way. A lot of other pilots will do the same thing.

-Sean

 

[Mu2Driver]

Mu2Driver:
I have my BS, but I also have glasses, so that route is out.

Sounds like a cop-out to me. A friend of mine last year got a waiver for 20/400 (not sure exactly, but his vision was really bad)...it limited him to flying transport aircraft, but hey I would take flying a C-17 any day.
The information that I have tells me that the Air Force is still way understaffed in the pilot career field, and they are willing to waiver the vision requirements.

I suggest you go and find some information and educate yourself if you are even remotely interested.

 

[350DRIVER]

Super -
You already have your mind made up so why even "ask" for advice.??!! If this is what you want then go ahead and do it. Will it make your resume look bad.?? Probably not to some airlines BUT it may to others and I personally would NOT want to "justify" to some old, CFI, ANTI- PFT, ANTI- Gulfjoke person sitting on the interview board on WHY I had to "whore" myself out and BUY a right seat in a 1900 (or should I say rent) due to the fact that I didn't want to instruct smelly kids in a C152 8 hours a day as you put it.... A comment like that won't score many points in the aviation community. Do as you wish, however do it and proceed with caution. (just my opinion).... I also would not want to be stuck on a long trip with a captain who had to come up the ranks the hard way without any breaks and explain your previous background to him. (could make for a very long and "unfriendly" trip)- I truly hope that the day comes where I am "blessed" enough to get an ex- gulfer as my f.o. -

You want to go to Gulf- E N J O Y ! ! Their are MANY other options available to you but that is your call not mine

3 5 0

 

[bigD]

Super - here's a fact. You'll leave GS with about 500 hours. Less than half of that will be PIC. Around here, you can't even fly traffic watch in a 172 without 500 hours of PIC. 250 hours SIC in a 1900 is essentially worthless with your time. You'll end up sitting next to a smelly HS kid in a 152 anyway. So save your money.

 

[katanabob]

You want 'facts' about Gulfstream?
Flightinfo.com has more than 6000 members. As of right now, your question has generated 27 replies from 349 views. Despite this incredible number of people and the uncommonly high reply/read ratio, not a single person has had anything good to say about them yet.
Searching for 'Gulfstream' on this board returns 228 threads, many of which appear to be pertinent to your question.
You don't believe that having them on your resume will adversely affect career opportunities? It's hard for me to believe that the general concensus thinks highly of them when I haven't been able to find a good word on them yet.
I'm just a lowly flight instructor waiting to go to training for a regional airline, however. I'm not the guy who does the hiring anywhere or anyone's chief pilot. Yet.
The people who have sent you a reply thought enough of your question to send a reply. Many of them aren't managers or interviewers. Yet.
Does anyone else notice that roughly 10% of the threads started on this board could be paraphrased in asking, "Does anyone out there know how I can get something for nothing?"