Gulfstream selling LEFT SEAT now!

[Kaman]

Hello,
I'm not trying to fan any flames, but just because you sign a training contract at Colgan doesn't make you guilty of P-F-T. Nor does it mean you have a "Gulfstream mentality". I'm not really fond of the fact that I signed a training contract, but looking back into airline history. You would be surprised how many "quality" regionals were either P-F-T or required you sign a training contract. They are an unfortunate outcome of the rapid exodous of pilots to other "better" jobs. Considering the amount of overhead required to operate an airline, it makes sense that management would like to re-coup some of the costs of training by asking pilots to stick around for a year.
Personally, I am disgusted by the way flight training that supposedly leads to an airline seat is marketed. There is so much more to the job than the fancy uniform, glass cockpits and "lifestyle". Thats all a bunch of smoke and mirrors that hardly scratches the surface of the day-to-day reality of being an airline pilot. Especially, a pilot flying in the Northeast during the winter monthds. However, this is the reality of today's marketplace and pilot job market. I think that the whole paradigm is changing before our very eyes, if it is for the better. Time will tell us.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[FlyChicaga]

Where did I associate a training contract with PFT?

Even major airlines have training contracts. ATA is one, with a 24-month contract. As far as I know, this is still in effect.

There is a major difference between 'pay for training' and 'pay for job.' Many use the terms synonymously; however, they are quite different.

 

[bobbysamd]

May I throw up now?

It is indeed on the Gulfstream website, front and center. Are four-stripe epaulets and scrambled-egg hat visors included in the package, or are those extra? How about the babes? John Travolta with four stripes. It's a whole new fantasy!

This really is sad, and pathetic and disgusting. What makes it especially sad is there actually are people who will pony up the money to pay for a "captain" "job" at Gulfstream. P-F-T has stooped to a new low level.

This new Gulfstream scheme is proof positive that an any aviation job can be purchased, even a Captain's job. For that reason alone, as FlyChicaga wrote, all professional pilots should care, and here's why. How can pilots expect management to respect them when all it has to do is put their jobs up for sale? It's surprising that Uncle Frank in his "genius" did not sell Continental jobs after he declared bankruptcy in the '80s.

Once more, there is no jealousy, pity-seeking, envy, bitterness or rancor here. How can one be jealous or envious of something one can buy? I repeat: Anyone can buy a job. All it takes is money. It takes no special talent or qualifications to buy a job.

Once again, the Beatles said it best:

I’ll buy you a diamond ring my friend
If it makes you feel alright
I’ll get you anything my friend
If it makes you feel alright
’cause I don’t care too much for money
For money can’t buy me love

Just give it time. If "airline" "captaincies" are for sale, can love be far behind??

Finally, training contracts are not P-F-T. Compare a training contract to a form of bond or security to ensure the company earns back what it expended for your training. Note that I wrote what the company expended for your training. With P-F-T, you pay the company for your training. Training bonds and training contracts are not comparable to P-F-T in any way.

 

[igneousy2]

We are all whores, there are two bit hookers and whores for the stars. There are many ways to whore yourself.

1. Pay for flight time
2. PFT
3. Training contract
4. getting paid poverty wages.
5. Paying for your Commercial/ATP -- that's right you're a whore if you paid for your own ratings, many foreign airlines pay pilots and take them from ZERO through Airbus FO...all with pay. Truth hurts huh?

If we all stuck together we could have made the airlines pay for all of our ratings!

yeah right!

"People who live in glass houses..."

Later

 

[climbhappy]

Quote: We Are All Whores!

Repsectfully disagree....

Customers refused to pay $1400 at the last minute to fly a 300 mile leg.

they started scouring the web for deals.

In an industry that gouged the customer all during the nineties only to miss the oncoming trainwreck of a recession at the start of the decade dismisses the whore argument.

ref recesssion of early 80's; early 90's

finally, the failure of the industry's pilots to regulate itself with minimum times and ratings for equipment allow 300 hour wonders to step into a fully automated jet and land it by clicking off the autopilot at the minimums shout by the GPWS.

I taught a stock broker friend how to fly a visual in a 737 sim at CLT and land it in 20 minutes.
My point: to be a gear bitch in todays fully automated RJ requires a pulse, sobriety, and the ability to chew gum. (notice i didn't say Captain)

 

[bobbysamd]

Paying for training v. P-F-T

Paying for your Commercial/ATP -- that's right you're a whore if you paid for your own ratings, many foreign airlines pay pilots and take them from ZERO through Airbus FO...all with pay.

(emphasis added)

That is a gross oversimplification for the only reason is that we're here and they're there. Two separate systems. Go change it.

The only way that pilots in America can have their training paid for from zero time is to join the military - and not every individual is qualified to be a military pilot, though those who are not could probably become civilian pilots.

The same is true for foreign airlines. I used to train foreign airline students. These people are sought out by their airlines and are hand-picked to become pilots - just as individuals are hand-picked to become military pilots.

The long and short of it is you cannot compare paying for your ratings to paying for training. P-F-T is an employment issue, only. As a condition of employment you agree to remit money to the airline in return for it training you. Thus, by paying for training, you purchase a job. That's it, plain and simple.

 

[flying4food]

Bobbysamd,

I'm curiously waiting to see how you twist the unfortunate 9E accident on PFT!! I know it's eating away at you!!! I could tell by your tone in the above post!!!

 

[RiddleMan80]

Does anybody know if they are selling the right seat? If so, what are the minimums for that? Just curious if that would be a good way to start my career.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Does anybody know if they are selling the right seat? If so, what are the minimums for that? Just curious if that would be a good way to start my career.

Give it a rest man. Can't you find SOMETHING better to do on reserves?

 

[bobbysamd]

I'm curiously waiting to see how you twist the unfortunate 9E accident on PFT!! I know it's eating away at you!!! I could tell by your tone in the above post!!!

I'm not aware of it, sorry. If you are insinuating that I believe that P-F-T crews are unsafe, I do not, never have and never will. They still have to take their 121 rides with the feds. My issue is how they got to that point. I do not believe that P-F-T is a safety issue. P-F-T is an employment issue, as well as ethics, pride and fraud issues.

Does anybody know if they are selling the right seat? If so, what are the minimums for that? Just curious if that would be a good way to start my career.

Review of your profile strongly suggests that you are a Riddle C(R)APT grad. If so, sorry it didn't work out for you, but you should have known better. Another example of P-F-T fraud/disappointment; I regret that it came from ERAU. To answer your question, yes, Gulfstream sells right seats.