Gulfstream Airlines to Major?

[MEXICANFLYBOY]

I don't get it?

(define low time? A pilot may have 4000 hours, but just upgraded. S/he is a low time Capt.)

Most low time pilots, whether they are new Captains, GIA, PFT, etc..are so new to thier environement, they have a fear of the unknown, a fear of not being socially accepted and a fear of not doing the job as well as expected. When I was low time, I had these fears (no, I am not GIA or PFT) I am (was a low time) a pilot just like everyone else.

No one likes to have fear or be afraid. It is human nature to counter this fear. Anger usually counters fear. And in our aviation culture what also counters fear is cockiness, arrogance and ego.



The question is... do you have the skillset to provide an environment so these low time pilots don't have a fear. No fear means no arrogance.

Why do you have to provide a positve environement? You don't. But then you have deal with arrogance, ego's and cockiness. Instead why don't you take these low time guys who don't know any better and .....make them better! Low time pilots are blank checks. YOU get to fill in the amount. You get to decide what VALUE they will have. Treat low time pilots like whale-sh!t and they will become bitter losers who will fly your family one day. Show them how to fly professionally and NOT be arrogant and they will be professionals

You must be willing to train your replacement. Why? Because you can't fly every jet in the world and one day you'll retire.




And what is the deal with treating GIA/PFT/PFJ guys like second class citizens? Look man, in my world, there would be no PFT/PFJ, but there is and I can't control that. What I can control is HOW I define myself by HOW I treat low time pilots.

I find it humorous.. We live in a capitalistic society. The dollar is king. We all adore the dollar and want more of it so we can do more things. We demand what we want and we want it as fast as we can get it. So GIA markets thier service to appease the needs of the consumer.

We are trying to have it both ways... or in certian instances we should disregard our capitalistic culture and society and shun those who don't know when to discrimminate to the whims of the masses.....

supply & Demand baby

 

[VxClimb]

pilots hired from gulfstream in last 6 months..

spirit - 3
southwest - 2
airtran - 2
continental - 1
netjets - 1
citationshares - 1
ups - 1
fedex - 1
allegiant - 1

possibly a couple more that i dont know about

 

[MEXICANFLYBOY]

more

& More going to Express Jet, Republic, Pinnacle

 

[TAWS]

Boring thread rises from the dead!!!!!!!!!!!

Who is resurrecting this crap???

Now back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

 

[instructordude]

pilots hired from gulfstream in last 6 months..

spirit - 3
southwest - 2
airtran - 2
continental - 1
netjets - 1
citationshares - 1
ups - 1
fedex - 1
allegiant - 1

possibly a couple more that i dont know about

Did they all start out on the Lav Dump at those companies?:laugh:

 

[fareview]

I'm posting this because it took forever for me to type it up. And if you don't feel like reading this whole thing, do yourself the favor and click on the link in my signature. I cried I laughed so hard.

Citabriapilot – Heads up.

Russian - What up?!

T-Gates - Cheers to ya!! Right on.

I just read this thread the other day and I'll admit I was a little surprised. The GIA hate meter is pegged! Odd that people would waste energy on such a thing. Then again I have personally seen some of the people who post on here on a freakishly regular basis. Let’s just say their social calendar has some free space on it. But I happen to have little free time, so what the hell?

Anyway...where do I begin? Quick synopsis maybe...

Graduated College (Marketing) - Ad Sales (1 year) - Got married (she's a saint) - Borrowed $62k to pay for Pvt thru Comm-Multi, new truck ("The Bullet" died. R.I.P. old girl) and the GIA F/O program - Ramper for AA and a landscaper for county (making money to fly and pay bills/loans) - Certs and ratings at local aeropuerto while ramping (2 years) - F/O program at GIA (still ramping. worked 27-30 days a month. Wife worked 1 full time and 2 part time jobs. Grab Kleenex now) - Flew at GIA for one year as a PFT F/O – left GIA for PDT (Mgt to me: Thanks for coming. Hope you enjoyed the Dash 8 these last 7 months. You're being furloughed) - Still ramping while at PDT (total of 4 years ramping) - left PDT for ACA prior to furlough (finally quit ramping. It's cooler than you think in the belly of a 757 in August in FL...No it's not.) - on the furlough list 4 times in 2 years at ACA - voluntarily ejected from the Indy Air experience 2 years to the day after I joined ACA/Indy (great times, better friends) - went to ALL ATP’s and got my ATP. No airline paid for it as I had still not been able to upgrade anywhere. My ATP did NOT come with a type rating either. Did yours? I guess you could call that more PFT on my part - back to GIA as a street Capt - 1000 Part 121 Turbine Multi PIC in 11 months - interviewed and hired at FedEx 18 months after returning to GIA - currently swimming in the Purple pool (class date this summer???) - No. I do not have any family there (never have) or a friend who is a CP/DO/VP. - No debt. Loan terms were 10 & 20 years. Paid off in 4.5 - Have I paid my dues? I don't know and even more importantly I don't care. I just got hired at my dream job. It's all I can do to not start a thread that says: "You were just hired at FedEx. What are you going to do next? Me: I'm going to Disney World!!! But I digress.

Now take note. I have interviewed at 5 airlines that hired me (AA, PDT, ACA, GIA, FDX). I also interviewed at CoEx somewhere in the middle of all this but I got up and left in the middle of the interview and they subsequently did NOT hire me. Go figure. Now we can toss the AA interview because I just threw bags so GIA would not have had an effect on my being hired or not. However, I will add, at the time I ramped for AA there were currently about 5 other GIA pilots doing the same thing. Some were mechanics, some smashers. AA hired several of them and I was also granted an interview at AA which would have fallen around early 02. 9/11 changed that.

ACA, PDT and FDX interviewers all said roughly the same things regarding GIA and the type of flying we do. It went something like this: "So let me get this straight. You have no autopilot, no FMS, no APU, no F/A. Flying a 9 leg, 16 hour day is not at all unheard of. (I thought the people at FedEx would faint when I told 'em that one.) You have flown 119 hours in one month on more than 1 occasion? It looks hot in those little airplanes. Is It? Aren't thunderstorms a bitch at 14000 ft? Etc.” The PDT CP told me during my interview that I was going to have to quit one of my other jobs if they hired me (AA or GIA). He was half kidding. He also said it appeared that I was a hard working SOB. FDX said it looked like the road I had traveled to get to that interview was full of potholes. I told them potholes are the spice of life. They laughed, told me that it was cool that I got to fly to Cuba at GIA and asked if I could get cigars. I told them I’d let ‘em know if they hired me. The guy who did my sim ride at FDX ragged on me about the B-1900 and asked me if I was aware that the DC-10 he and I were currently sitting in had 3 engines and that they were jets. I said yes. He laughed. I passed. He pulled me aside after the fact and said I did great. It was cool.

Now I might not have a mountain of experience but I do have enough to know this: Nobody said they wouldn’t hire me because I paid/flew at GIA. GIA opened enough doors for me to get on at FDX. If I had not been hired there would I have spent the $8K and gone to Higher Power for the 737 type? Absolutely. Does that seem like PFT to me? Yep. Do I fault the guys and gals at SWA for doing it? Nope. Should anybody really give a crap? Nope. Are paying for the type, paying Gulfstream or paying to be a CFI all the same in my eyes? Yep. And most importantly, is life/aviation fair? NOT AT ALL!!! But the majority of us have some intestinal fortitude and we’re OK with that. Arguing the GIA program is like telling a doctor not to pay for med school because he might end up with a job after he graduates.

GIA serves a purpose. For some that is PFT instead of being a CFI. I would have NEVER been a CFI. I knew that early on. My reasoning was it would be extremely unfair of me to try and teach some garden shrub how to fly when I didn’t really care if he learned or not. I just wanted his loot and the flight time. I just didn’t think that would be cool of me to do to somebody who was expecting better from their instructor.

For others GIA can serve its purpose if they hire you as a street captain. Show up get your 1300 PIC (SWA) and move on. Here’s a novel idea too: You don’t even have to like it at GIA. And that’s OK. All you’re doing is advancing your career. But I bet you will like it. Sun, sand, hurricanes. What’s not to love? Plus there’s kind of an “us against the world, everybody treats us like we’re the Bad News Bears” attitude among the pilots that makes the whole experience pretty comical. And the camaraderie is top notch too. Also, it’s kind of fun being the underdog. Everybody counts you out before you even show up at the dance. But a little Sun Tzu should have taught them better than that. Never underestimate, etc., etc…

Rez O. Lewshun said it best at the beginning of this thread: “All you need are the right qualifications and THE PROPER ATTITUDE”. The choice is yours.

Q/F

P.S. There are about 6 sons/nephews of current and recently retired FedEx captains flying at GIA today. Some have just upgraded to Capt. We’ll see what happens in 12 months…

Nice post, congrats on getting there.

A lot of SWA guys paid for a type, no one holds it against them (apart from on these boards) nor should they. Do what you gotta do - except cross a picket line and good luck in your career.

fv

 

[sclark161]

Most junior guy in my swa class was a GIA street capt. He'll be #16 when he retires.

 

[learflyer]

Nice post, congrats on getting there.

A lot of SWA guys paid for a type, no one holds it against them (apart from on these boards) nor should they.


It's hard to believe that spending money on a type (equivalent to the price of a jetski or a used car) is PFT. Especially the rewards one reaps at SWA.

 

[Tram]

Man, I love flight info...

This place has literally the most bogus aviation advice I have ever heard..

I am seriously starting the think that Flight Info is where a large portion of those "tools everyone hates to fly with" congregate..

This place used to piss me off.. Now it just keeps me rollin'..

You kiddo's are hilarious..

Oh, just got off the phone with a friend of mine.. add another Gulfstream guy into one of the most recent SWA new hires classes....

 

[Lord Wakefield]

never again

If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't go the GIA route.

Gulfstream closed some doors for a period but open others. To my knowledge, no one is "blackmailing" GIA pilots. Midway did for a while after some bad apples, but they're out of business...

My bad experience with GIA is more PRIA related. And when that nonsense first got started, recruiters were easily scared by what they saw. In my own experience, and from talking to others, they don't take this stuff too seriously any longer, especially from GIA and the old Trans States. GIA used training events to trim for new applicants with money in hand; plain and simple.

As for street captains, that has all sorts of negative possibilities. I found that those who had never been F/Os had their own unique shortcomings. Add to this the complacency from flying garbage in mostly VMC at sea level airports and you have a recipe for disaster when the seasoned 3Mer tries to get "a real job." E.G.: The last two RJ crashes were piloted by former 'Streamers and the illustrious former Check Airman/Fuehrer got nixed from training at a very early stage at a major Fractional Airline.

Are they all bad? Certainly not! And this is a CRAZY industry. Who would've thought the proud Delta would get bought by the sick man of the industry, or that pilots would consider saying no to UAL or AA?

And yet GIA still plugs on, a decade and a half later, with no major accidents and playing the same games they always did.

 

[Whine Lover]

“All you need are the right qualifications...." - NOT necessarily...I was hired into TWO jobs I wasn't even remotely qualified for. Both were 121 Ops.

"..and THE PROPER ATTITUDE”. " - ABSOLUTELY. See the above, and BELOW.

Consider this:

With a total time of 900 hours C-150/52

- 7.8 Multi

- 1.2 ACTUAL Instrument PIC

I was offered right seat in a DC-6.

Crazy?

No...I just explained to the Man why I could do it, and why he needed me too.

I turned that job down to fly a larger, 4 engine TURBINE aircraft.

Attitude Determines Altitude.

You DON't need to fly for the Commuters or PFT to get where you want to go.

WORD.


YKW

 

[hoover]

Shortly after that I remember they started making guys pay for training to go straight into the left seat.

Must clarify. No company out there MAKES a pilot pay for their training. That is the PILOT'S choice whether or not to do that.

 

[hoover]

Years ago I worked with a pilot who did the PFT thing. Went to the right seat of a J31 at around 300 hours. A couple of years later she was flying for United. Still there to my knowledge. While she was loving life as 737 pilot, her contemporaries were doing the "honorable" thing by working as instructors or freight dogs for 13K a year. Which would you rather be?

It seems to me that there are three ways to "pay your dues" (as some will insist that we must do). The first is to spend several years slogging it out as a CFI/Freight Dawg/Regional pilot. The second is two spend 10 years getting shot at in the military, and the third is to alleviate the risk that a company takes in hiring a low time pilot by paying for your initial training. Personally, I think paying 10K for 1) a guaranteed job, and 2) the chance to skip all that time building BS is a hell of an investment.

 

[Tram]

Yeh, but it wasn't the PFT that made her a pilot, it was BAE..

 

[Fly4PayNoMore]

The funny thing is about this whole bickering match about PFT, is that everyone pays for their own training, unless they went the military route. You paid for all your ratings, then you flight instructed for a while, then you flew 135 for a couple of years, then you got a job at a regional (where the pay still sucks) and you are still stuck there.

GIA guys paid, got trained, got put right into the right seat of a 1900? I was sitting in ground school with 2000 hours and several years of my life living on a pittance wages, and the GIA guys had skipped the whole process. If you understand the time value of money, the money I spent on my initial training and the time I spent scrounging for cash so I could eat macaroni and cheese with hotdogs in it, and compare it to the GIA guys situation, they probably come out in not such bad shape.

I don't necessarily think that 250-500 hour pilots should be flying passengers around, but I think the PFT fight is a dead one.

 

[mac36]

Am I the only one that sees the irony here? Don't you have to PFT to get hired at SWA?

Yeah, I think they'll sell you a 737 type if you don't have on.

That's different though. ;-)

 

[Sky Goddess]

Did I hottub with u in NAS shortly before you left?

 

[328dude]

Yeah, I think they'll sell you a 737 type if you don't have on.

That's different though. ;-)

It's ok though. Paid for the type my first month here. Moving on now.

Anyone want a pm 3 day that pays 23

 

[trijetter]

I would NOT recommend Gulfstream. If it was up to me, (which it's not of course) SWA would NOT ever hire a Gulfstream Airlines pilot.

I guess they paid for your 737 type when you got hired at SWA. oh I get it now its ok to PFT at SWA but not any other airline.

 

[Tram]

A good friend of mine just got hired at SWA... Told him my company may be going belly up and I was looking for somewhere to go.. "Ahh, let me put you in touch with a guy in my class who was from Gulfstream..."

Also, my pops had an FO a few months back who was.. from Gulfstream...


Sounds like there is no hope for the GIA kids..