Grievance ruling

[MetroSheriff]

Yes it would.
The same way I sat and waited for 5 years after getting my ATP for the job market to pick up. I didn't start blaming anyone or getting angry, it was the economy.
You can't blame a company for trying to do what companies are supposed to do (make a profit).

Good point too. Ialso dropped out of aviation for 6 years in 91 till the market picked up. The question remains if things are so bad why is DCI growing while mainline is furloughing. Something tells me we are going to hear of exponential growth on the regional side very soon, with the lions share going to SkyWest.

Hmmm....

 

[cmrflyer]

Here is another great point...........

ALPA gets them their jobs back, they start flying around empty aircraft. Six months later (Delta's 2.5 Billion Dollars cash has been pi$$ed down the toilet) and guess what? We are all fuct.
So I say wake up to reality, yes it blows, but that is the way it goes.
When I was on strike I didn't blame the company for not wanting to give us what we asked for, they would be mad if they had. I also didn't go mental when they started giving our aircraft to ASA and SkyWest, that boys is how business is done.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Here is another great point...........

ALPA gets them their jobs back, they start flying around empty aircraft. Six months later (Delta's 2.5 Billion Dollars cash has been pi$$ed down the toilet) and guess what? We are all fuct.
So I say wake up to reality, yes it blows, but that is the way it goes.
When I was on strike I didn't blame the company for not wanting to give us what we asked for, they would be mad if they had. I also didn't go mental when they started giving our aircraft to ASA and SkyWest, that boys is how business is done.

I don't disagree. It's business, and it sucks for labor. I would say however, that this is wet dream for Leo. If there is a grave dancer in the picture, it is DAL...and AMR, and NWA, and UAL etc, etc, etc....

 

[surplus1]

For those of you who wished us well, thank you. For those of you who were giddy at the prospect of dancing on our graves, now is your chance. Enjoy.

DALPA lost the grievance. I won't see a cockpit again for a very long time. Delta now has the freedom to do what they wanted to do on September 10.

I am trying very hard not to let it get me down, but I'm not doing too well. I will be back someday. But I will never forget today.

Delta had my heart. They'll never get it back.

I know that there are 1000's of guys who feel the same way I do.

Sorry for whining. I'm usually a pretty positive guy. Today sucks. Tomorrow will be better.

FDJ,

Just to let you know again I'm sorry that you're furloughed and hope that you will be recalled at the earliest possible time.

As you may guess, I think the arbitrator's decision was correct but I need for you to know that has NOTHING to do with wanting you to be furloughed or being happy about it.

This grievance resulted from the fact that your contract contains a FM clause. The arbitrator did NOT rule that the Company can do whatever it wants. He ruled that the Company's interpretation of the contract is correct in this instance. He also ruled that it will be reviewed as conditions change.

I know that doesn't help how you feel and I do sympathize with your feelings. I really want to see all of you recalled tomorrow if possible. 9/11 has changed ALL of our lives, even though we are pretending that it didn't. The truth is it has cost every American grave damage.

Don't give up please and don't be bitter. We will all recover from this, some sooner than others for some have lost far more than their jobs. There is life tomorrow and we will come back stronger than before.

You will fly again at Delta. Keep your chin up. You and I have many differences on this forum it is true, but there is one difference that we DO NOT have. WE ARE BOTH PROFESSIONAL AVIATORS.

No real aviator ever wants to see his brother without work! It doesn't matter what we disagree about.

Best wishes for a speedy recall.

 

[FlyingSig]

For those that are interested, here's what the whole arguement was over:

From the DAL Contract:

1.J. General Furlough Protection

1.J.1.
No pilot on the seniority list as of July 1, 2001 will be placed on furlough.

1.J.2.
The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of Section 1 J. 1. in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such noncompliance.


The circumstance is defined as:

1.B.2. Circumstance over which the Company does not have control,
for the purposes of Section 1, means a circumstance that includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute; grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery; manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery. The term “circumstance over which the Company does not have control” will not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.


The part I highlighted in bold & italics is the part that the arbitrator apparently didn't read, or doesn't understand, IMHO.

I don't buy the war emergency part. We have not declared war on anyone. Bush declared war on terrorism. We've had wars on drugs and wars on education, but those never caused contracts to be violated before. Bush has not needed to use any Delta airplanes in this war. The war has not forced Delta to stop flying any routes (they stopped some on their own, not because they had to)

On Sept. 11, our fleet was grounded. Yup, that was FM. But the FM went away when the goverment reimbursed Delta for the losses incurred. Delta was grounded for 3 days. They got $600 million in free money. At the time, they were burning $10million/day. So let's see...grounded for 3 days, get 60 days worth of cash......

I'm just pissed off and share FDJ's sentiments exactly... well, almost, today wasn't any better then yesterday.

 

[Delta3]

As a former DL student employee I feel bad for you guys. I enjoyed a lot of long lunches at the OCC and the traning building cafeteria talking to you guys.

I too believe that DL is giving you the short end of the stick. One one hand you read reprts of air travel back to, or close to to pre-9/11 numbers, but then you read about more furloughs, makes you wonder...

 

[RJFlyer]

FDJ and other DL pilots:

I've said before - I am not glad you are on furlough, and hope you will be recalled as soon as possible. But I too believe the arbitrator made the right decision. I suppose his decision also doesn't bode well for your scope grievance, either. However, on the bright side (from your perspective anyway), it could end up harming the RJDC suit, as it will be very tough for the RJDC to prove damages created by your scope clause, since there won't have been any.

I sincerely hope you are recalled soon. The conditions which resulted in your furlough are not permanent. You will be back.

Best of luck,

RJFlyer

 

[publisher]

2 points

Two points.

First, eight months later or 1 year later, is there anyone who thinks that this was not the direct result of the terrorist acts.

2nd, the airlines lost a combined $3.0+m in this quarter.

Should they be doing things that are totally uneconomical. The cure for our ills are passengers, not forcing airlines to fly people and equipment that it does not need.

 

[ATRCA]

My question for the publisher,

When does mgt. pay for thier inability to properly manage these companies. Many of them were suffering prior to Sept. 11th. Now all of a sudden they have a pass. They have collected millions from the government while they continue to lay off thier unionized work forces.

The CEO of my company recently recieved a quarterly bonus that exceeded $900,000, while he continutes to cry poverty for the company. This would be easier to swallow if mgt. suffered as well but they don't however they just pass the buck to their employees. I will never ever again go out of my way to do anything I'm not paid for or that doesnt directly benefit ME. I could really care less about the company, its profitabiliy, growth or the personal lives of the people at the top. I didnt always feel this way. When I came to this company I thought it was a good place to be and the people who ran the company were deserving of my best effort. No longer. Point A to B and thats it, on time or late, doesnt matter.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surprised at the response this ruling is getting. It the big scheme, it is not that significant.

ALPA has a terrible history of losing these political grievances and court cases. Truth is that ALPA can obtain much more for mainline pilots through predatory negotiations than they can through legitimate legal processes. Did anyone expect ALPA to win this grievance? I sure didn't.

However, ALPA probably will win "win" the scope re-set negotiations. After all, the ALPA members who would argue for the interests of the small jet operators will be excluded from the bargaining process.

By setting block hour scope limits on the Connection carriers, ALPA turned this into a zero sum game. By ALPA's standards it was my job, or their job. Candidly, I'm glad that I get to keep my job earning a profit that sustains the business. FDJ would not shed a tear if ALPA's grievance resulted int he furlough of 800 Connection pilots. Is anyone shedding tears for the US Air Express pilots who will loose their jobs as the Potomac Air jets replace their Dash 8's?

ALPA's war on small jet pilots is not over by a long shot. The scope re-set negotiations will seek to achieve what legitimate legal process could not. Buergey will be out to repair his "effective scope." If any RJ pilots are celebrating they are fools. It is too early to count wins and losses...

Truly, we will all be better off when our union brings us together - when it is no longer us v/s them. As long as ALPA fails to unite us there will remain winners and losers.

Regards,
~~~^~~~