Grievance ruling

[captjorge74]

FDJ

I am real sorry about the ruling. Not only is painful to the Delta Pilots but its much more painful to Delta Connection. I really hate to see good people go out on the streets. I know there are people who is really enjoying this moment and its totally uncalled for. We just cant please everyone nor make everyone happy. I wished you and all the furloughed pilots the best of luck. I look forward to the day to see all of you back on line again.

 

[surplus1]

FDJ

Not only is painful to the Delta Pilots but its much more painful to Delta Connection.

Why?

Not trying to start anything, just curious as to your reasoning.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus,

In general, I think you make sense. There really was never any sense in thinking that ALPA could deal fair and equibly with both mainline carriers and regionals.

Unless we can find an equitable way to resolve the conflict of interest, I predict that one side or the other will ultimately leave the union.

As I say all the time, it is about money, power, and votes. When used efficiently, these empowerments in the hands of union leadership can wrest management from management.

I agree that it's about money and power. That I expect from management of the company, but not from management of the union. I think the union leaders, in pursuit of both those things for themselves have ignored the true needs of the membership. Not just the "regional" members but in reality ALL the members. The current difficulty, if unresolved, will ultimately hurt the people with the votes (in the union) far more than the minority that is being outvoted. They have not yet acquired the wisdom to recognize that.

All these things have to be done however in the place of market economics.

I think what you've really said in that section of your post is you believe the mainline pilot groups have priced themselves out of the market.

I'm not so sure I agree with that. Your theory is accurate but there are other ways to look at it.

What we really have today is 3 different markets. One is the traditional prime market in which the big six participate. There is a secondary market that I would call the discount market served primarily by SWA and a few others like JBlue, AirTran, ATA. The 3rd market is the niche served by the regional jet carriers.

SouthWest has been smart enough to identify its market and serve it well. It carefully avoids direct conflict with the big six in their fortress locations and has been "alone" for some time. Few would argue that it is anything but successful. There is room for a few more players and the 3 I mentioned can all do well as long as they remain in their market.

The regionals have also done exceptionally well in their segment. Particularly the significant carriers like Eagle, COEX, ASA, CMR, SKYW, and ACA and potentially Mesa. The others are on the perphery.

I'd mention Alaska and Horizon, but see them as a sub-market that is geographically centered. True "regionals".

Big six management has avoided confrontation with the 2nd level. They act to hold their own but don't really try too hard to take over the market knowing they can't really do that successfully with the infrastructure they have.

So, they have more or less skipped over the middle, but attacked the 3rd level with vigor. Wisely, they have not tried to eliminate the market, but through acquisition and clever subcontracting have gained control of it and are using it as an adjunct or embellishment of their prime market. It has worked very well and they are enjoying the best of both worlds using one to compliment the other while reaping the rewards of controlling both.

The mainline pilots have interestingly ignored the 2nd level either by accident or design (though I doubt the latter). Therefore you seldom see them complaining loudly about the low wages (in the same equipment). Perhaps they've figured out there's not much they can do about it. Those carriers however, are the ones that have truly cost them jobs.

Why the mainline pilots focus on the regionals and have singled them out as job stealers of their flying escapes me. The disimilarity of equipment and market makes it impossible for regional to replace big six flying.

The owners an controllers of the small carriers are not going to allow them to negatively impact the core business or shrink it. They are actually an expansion tool. This fact seems lost on the mainline pilots and, of course, the union they run.

If the union and the mainline pilots would take the approach that management has taken with the regional carriers, i.e., assimilate them in lieu of practicing apartheid everyone might benefit.

In any event, market forces will dictate the future. In the process the attitude of the mainline pilots may result in producing the very undoing of their empire that they want to protect.

 

[publisher]

for one

For one, the mainline pilots know they have little control over the middle group..... but some influence over wholly owned or contract carriers.

As far as some of the regionals, there are really two different situations, feed and direct city pairs. The majors of course have them to feed and offer service where it is not feasible with a larger aircraft.

What the mainline pilots fail to see is that the competition on some of this flying is the group they have no control over and if they take it over they will be non-competitive.

This is why they came up with things like Delta Express, Metro, etc..

These artificial things are a recipe for failure. The assimilation you would like would do little except exacerbate the problem. Cures your problem, kills the company in the marketplace.

 

[captjorge74]

Surplus1

I just came in to express my gratitude to the pilots of Delta. It is sadden to hear that these pilots will end up on the streets. Who knows when these pilots will be re-called back. I hope this drama can come to a close soon and to move on with life.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Thanks Jorge.

 

[ifly4food]

I know how ridiculous this must sound, but ASA still plans to make good on its offer to hire Delta furloughees without requiring them to resogn seniority.
Though any who took it would probably make more on unemployment, it might not be a bad way to keep current until you get called back.
I feel I speak for most ASA pilots when I say we would welcome any of you.
Spread the word to those who may be interested.