Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Greener pastures overseas?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Erlanger

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Posts
1,693
For captain Brian Murray, the memory of the way pilots and crew were treated during the airline bankruptcies of the 1980s still stings. "Planes were parked. Crews were out and had to find their own way home," says the former Piedmont Airlines pilot. "We were bringing people home in the cockpit and in the back of the cabin." After 23 years of flying mainline American carriers, Murray, 54, says he became "tired of watching senior management march through the airline and leave with huge golden parachutes."

So in July 2004 he jumped too, from U.S. Airways to Dubai-based Emirates. His new company provides him with a freshly pressed uniform and a chauffeur-driven car to each flight. Murray has twice the vacation time (42 days), guaranteed annual raises and a benefits package that has lured more than 100 U.S. pilots to Emirates over the past four years. One-third of the 23 former U.S. Airways pilots at Emirates had the option to return when the airline recalled them from furlough after the cuts in 2004. Only one did. "It's just not worth it," Murray says. "Employees have been beaten down to the lowest common denominator, where the salary, benefits and career path are so miserable--so uncertain." And maybe it's also because the guys who once ruled the U.S. skies now have a different status at the legacy carriers--employee.

That sentiment--a common one among the more than 10,000 U.S. airline pilots put on furlough between late 2001 and 2006--has led to what many airline experts call a major shortage of pilots willing to work for U.S. carriers. Bankruptcies, pay cuts, frozen pensions, eroded job security and increases in monthly flight hours have pushed some pilots out of the industry. Others have simply picked up and followed the best jobs overseas. Emirates, for example, expects to hire 540 pilots this year. Half the applicants are Americans, compared with just 7% of its current pilots. The result is a massive shift of talent and experience from U.S. carriers into the international market.

Pilots flying for airlines in foreign markets say they are treated like upper-level managers, with something they feel they no longer get in the U.S.: respect. China and India are signing up pilots with two-to-five-year contracts and giving them the chance to move around the world without having to start at the bottom and advance--something stifled by the seniority system in the U.S. "It's an amazing opportunity," says Murray.

And the word is quickly getting out to pilots in training. An aviation major and recent graduate of Georgia State University, Adnan Pochi, 21, has been flying since age 15 and has already racked up 300 flying hours. Although he will probably start off at a U.S. regional carrier, Pochi is attracted to the energy at airlines overseas. He hopes someday to go to India to work for Kingfisher Airlines. "They're hiring like crazy," says Pochi. "It's a big market."

The U.S. is still the world's pilot training ground, but the pool of young talent is drying up. The number of military pilots, once a reliable source of commercial recruits, has been declining. Flight instructors, whom the industry needs to keep the pipeline of new pilots flowing, are hopping abroad rather than spending years racking up hours to qualify for bottom-rung U.S. pilot posts. And only about 20% of furloughed pilots are coming back to work, compared with 80% to 90% historically, says Jerry Glass, a Washington-based consultant and president of F&H Solutions Group.

So who will fill the estimated 12,000 new airline pilot jobs created this year in the U.S.? Major airlines can still skim off the top to fill plum jobs with eager regional pilots, but then those regional positions will need to be filled. That is forcing some smaller carriers, such as Pinnacle Airlines and Comair, to reduce flight-hour requirements for experienced pilots or offer training-completion bonuses to new flight-school graduates.

Captain John Prater, president of the Air Lines Pilots Association, says a shortage of qualified pilots is severely affecting some regionals' ability to fly, tempting them to push pilots to fly beyond Federal Aviation Administration maximum flight times. Chronic pilot fatigue jeopardizes safety--and the pipeline's flow. "You destroy the benefit and the value of being an airline pilot, and people will take their skills elsewhere," he says. And they are.

source: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1727702,00.html
 
Last edited:
I made the move overseas and the article is spot on.

I am treated better, the pay is much better, and the company runs like clockwork. They are also 100% hedged with most of the company's income not being dollar based which sure helps with oil is high.

There are a lot of opportunities out there if you are willing to make the move. (but you can still commute home to the US every month)
 
Just like anything else, there are pros and cons. I know one guy who's been with Emirates for over 8 years, and the honeymoon is over. 10 days off a month with some of them being on long layovers (more than 24 hours), locals bypassing you in seniority to fly new equipments. And the lifestyle... Dubai is probably a nice city to be in for a certain amount of time. But it's all artificial. The only nature you get is sand and the sea. I know it sounds like paradise, but over time it wears off. Definitely not a place to take your family if you are looking to be there long term.
So the initial financial package and benefits might sound good at first, but if you have a seniority here in the US, I think it's a mistake because there is no way back once you leave...
 
Just like anything else, there are pros and cons. I know one guy who's been with Emirates for over 8 years, and the honeymoon is over. 10 days off a month with some of them being on long layovers (more than 24 hours), locals bypassing you in seniority to fly new equipments. And the lifestyle... Dubai is probably a nice city to be in for a certain amount of time. But it's all artificial. The only nature you get is sand and the sea. I know it sounds like paradise, but over time it wears off. Definitely not a place to take your family if you are looking to be there long term.
So the initial financial package and benefits might sound good at first, but if you have a seniority here in the US, I think it's a mistake because there is no way back once you leave...


I doubt you are talking about Emirates. Emirates does not count layovers as days off.

If your friend is an American then he can only be one person. That person is the senior American at Emirates. He is a TRE on the B777. TRE's do have the fewest days off, but they are also home in Dubai most every night and work the prime simulator times during the day. They are also making upwards of $16,500/month

While Brian is a bit enthusiatic in how he makes things appear, he isn't too far off the mark. Overseas jobs can be a good option for those who have not had a great run in the USA. Financially I make close to 3 times what I would if I was still at USAirways. I have a more fulfilling job and a pretty darn good lifestyle.



Typhoonpilot
 
Been flying overseas for the last two years. Will NEVER go back and fly in the U.S. The golden age is over in the U.S.
 
He has "already racked up 300 flying hours."

Harumph.
 
I you're single with no ties in the US you would be crazy not to


There are several commuting contracts that allow you to still live in the US and there are some contracts that are actually US based, some of the contracts are offering business class tickets for your commute (In our case). Is not for everyone, but I made the jump considering the offers I hade back in the States and so far it has worked out for me. You get paid well and are treated with respect
 
I have recently talked to many pilots that fly in Europe and honestly, from what I heard, the QOL, PAY, and Respect is much better. I am in the process of converting my certs now.
 
.....

I switched to the overseas flying gig around 2 years ago, and I love it.

It is not for everyone though. For some it will be a bad move.

For me, I was single and looking for something else. I found it (for now at least).

I'll quit doing this as soon as it doesn't agree with me anymore. Could be in 6 months, could be in 6 years, who knows. But speaking to some buddies @ US carriers and the like, im glad im outa there for now.
 
Converting your ATP is one thing, but how does one get around the requirements to live and work in the E.U.? If this was not a factor, I would be there in a heartbeat!
 
I remember Brian doing my new hire training at US Air and congratulating me on being "US Air's newest millionair" .....how times change!
 
Darn Skippy!

I didn't get a harumph outta that guy!!
Give the governor a harumph!!!
Blazing saddles, good movie.
I LOVE that movie!

I love the fact that they made a movie which makes fun of everyone-not a damn soul got offended..... This was in the days before the horrid, crippling philosophy known as "political correctness."

Back then, people could laugh at life, could laugh at those things which were funny about themselves and each other. It was nice to be able to take a joke and tell a joke without everyone getting their panties in a bunch.

-One of the top five best movies ever!
 
So foreign owned non-union carriers are now paying more than US based union carriers......

Rez? PCL128?
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom