hindsight2020 said:
The problem in aviation is that the "entry level" period never ends! It is absolutely ridiculous.
No, I completely understand what you are saying here, and I agree with your point. Making $30k after 10 years in is a legitimate concern. I'm not saying that it's a risk I'm unwilling to run, but it if it did happen to me, I'd definitely do something about it--maybe even a career change. Like I said, I like flying, but I like eating too. I'm just remaining (perhaps foolishly) optimistic that it won't be a choice between the two.
Here's a quote from myself from an earlier post...
Goose said:
...but I certainly wouldn't take $20k per year to fly airplanes indefinitely. Are you kidding? My goal was to eat, pay bills, and fly. $20k ain't going to cut it for very long.
Make that $30K as well.
And don't give me that sh%t about doctors slaving on their residencies, yeah 45K is real rough on a single 27yo.
First of all, you don't know that all interns are single. Second of all, they've got a STACK of debt. And third of all, they really, and mean REALLY put in the time. The comment about medical interns wasn't so much about pay, it was about working conditions and "duty day." A medical intern's working conditions are ostensibly much worse than ours. That's all I was trying to say.
But aviation, nooo , here you get a degree and then a Masters , maybe a Phd while you're at it, since a TAship pays more part-time than what a GOOD salaried full-time CFI job pays...
If you think a Phd. is going to help you in flying, you're smoking something.
Simply putting your nose to the grindstone and hoping for the best while you suck dirt for 10 years like a commited little pilot is simply foolish...
It's not foolish, it's risky. There's a difference. Success and risk are mutually inclusive.
and to suggest that 'attitude' is the key to succcess in this business is naive and ultimately biased by the dynamics of those who judge the condition of any matter based on their particular circumstance...
I think you are missing my point here. I never meant to imply that if one just has a "chipper" attitude and does their job like a brave little soldier that everything will work out fine for them. I'm sorry if that's what came across. What I meant to say is that success in this business, or what I would term "success," comes from risk, hard work in uncertainty, strategy, luck, sacrifice, and a realistic expectation for the results of said traits. Will I ever fly for a major? You know, probably not. That's fine. That's a
realistic expectation. Are there other ways that I can fly for a living and have a fulfilling career? Yeah, as long as I don't tell myself that I'm a failure if I don't get this one job or tell myself that I should be making $XXk by a certain point in my career. Things take time, sometimes more time than expected. And if I did luck out and fly for a major, that'd just be icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.
And what if because of unforeseen circumstances I can't fly for a living? Well, that's fine too. I'll figure something else out, and I'll still be a happy person. (Heaven knows I have a whole list of plan B's!) Hell, I'll just go fly gliders in addition to a "normal" job. I've got my CFI-G already and I don't need a medical.
Gosh, you guys are way too serious. You need to calm down and enjoy life. You're worrying yourselves into an early grave.
...without opening themselves to the possibility that maybe just maybe, those who are born rounding 3rd base and those at the plate with a holed-up wiffle bat don't quite have the same condition, and 'attitude' (read the subjecitve quantification of 'realistic expectations') has sh%t to do with it.
Sorry dude, I lost you there. Wiffle bat?
Nobody makes 200K anymore, people at the bottom get bracketed up, no expectations (emphasis added) of blowing up. Do that, those who wanted the big time are dis-incetivized (sp?) and those who truly value their professional worth are able to EAT and perform a duty with pride.
Is there an echo in here? I think that's what I've been trying to say all along-- realistic expectations. (And I think that'd be "disincentive-ized.")
Idealistic, perhaps, but I rather do that than whore out to a stupid high school speech about 'having the right attitude'.... I might be poor (ask the IRS they got tables for it) but at least I'm not a punk.
Yeah, a bit. But I'm idealistic enough to believe that success can be had somewhere in this industry. There are plenty of examples of it around.
Oh, and just for the record, I don't think I ever used the word "attitude."
-Goose