TiredOfTeaching said:All the negativity out there will pull you into the hole right with them.
Why are we so negative?
SkyBoy1981 said:So why exactly is our occupation not what it used to be?Simple..because of a group of people...
...who are too passionate about what they do and allow their emotions to stand in the way of what is practical. They are willing to go down to some school in Florida and fork out $120,000+ for someone to make them into an airline pilot...
Who cares about money..who cares about work rules...we get to go to work and fly airplanes right? I mean, thats all that matters.
Something tells me the professional aviators of the older era didn't see it like this...
My point is that a certain amount of b!tching and complaining is sometimes necessary to preserve what is left of our occuptation. If we all just walk around content with what we are given and never fighting for what we really deserve...
If, deep down, you like what you do, thats fine...but for the sake of all of us make sure you are getting your fair share of the deal.
Originally posted by Goose Egg:
I've said this before, but I think it has everything to do with having realistic expectations. For example, some people say that "this career ain't what it used to be," which I interpret to mean that I'll never make more than $100k as a pilot. Ok, now consider how many other people, working day in and day out, will never make $100k/year in their lifetimes. And many of these people have much more education than pilots, and will work harder, and be gone more often, and will work just as many holidays. I have Phd. student friends who envy me because, although I don't get paid well, I get to do what I love and they can tell that it positively affects my life.
So, in the future, pilots will not live in giant mansions and have pools and drive fast, expensive cars. That's fine with me, because that's not why I got into flying in the first place. I never wanted anything more than to fly for a living and have a subdivision house and a normal car. That's a realistic expectation.
One other thing that I think causes us to complain is that we as pilots and human beings tend to look at what other people have accomplished and judge ourselves against it. Don't do this, it will only hurt yourself. All you can expect out of yourself is your best. Life is life, and it is not a zero sum game.
SkyBoy1981 said:You're thinking into this way too hard....your fair share is a career with compensation, benefits, and work rules comparable to any other professional career. Your fair share is a company that abides by the pilot's contract.
Most professional careers have improved over the years in the way of employee pay and benefits, there is no reason that ours should keep going backwards.
Goose Egg said:some people say that "this career ain't what it used to be," which I interpret to mean that I'll never make more than $100k as a pilot.
Goose Egg said:Believe me, I see your point about having good work rules, benefits, etc.--I truly do--and I completely agree. However, I don't think that you realize that other "professionals," especially at the entry level, have it just as bad (or worse) than we do. Three examples that readily come to mind are sales, public accountants, and medical interns. Believe me, these guys have a lot crappier work rules than us (read no work rules. They are "professionals.")
Another point that Big Duke Six made is that some people seem to think that work rules, benefits, pay, etc. should remain static in a dynamic business environment. Sure, it'd be nice if we could plan on the security of ever-increasing pay and ever-sweetening benefits, but that's just not realistic. A rising tide raises all boats, just as a falling tide lowers them. As it turns out, we can't even plan on the security of ongoing employment, but that's how the working world is nowadays. If this hasn't occured to you, you might not be thinking about this hard enough.
Define improved. The way I see it, many are in decline, not just us.
SkyBoy1981 said:My only point was that sometimes we have to bitch a little or we end up just like them.
skyboy said:...and its people like this that contribute largely to the problem. Thanks for proving my point.
It's all in what you do with it.UnAnswerd said:
SkyBoy1981 said:....and its people like this that contribute largely to the problem. Thanks for proving my point.
....and he continues to prove my point. You'd better just shush while you're still ahead and before the real hardcores come along.UnAnswerd said:And what was your point? That you can't live without earning $100,000/year? For Christs sake, you steer an airplane. What, do you think you're worth millions???
You really should educate yourself at least a little bit on this crash before you get on a message board and ridicule the dead pilots.cynic said:We have Beech 1900 pilots that don't understand VMC or weight and balance.
cynic said:Because flying is easy. It doesn't take years of study, it takes 60K and a few months at pilots R Us. Its easier than college, hell, its probably easier than high school calculus, and ANY moron with cash can get the certificates.
We have RJ pilots that say 'Dude watch this' as they crash
We have Beech 1900 pilots that don't understand VMC or weight and balance
Pilots that show up drunk
You get the idea....
and 99.99999% of the time a chimp will do just fine anyway so thats what we have.
Now flame on, but its just reality. Should we pay more and get better pilots, perhaps some sort of vetting system... thats another debate and not my point.
But as for why wages are low... because airlines are willing to take the folks that work for 20K a year and they know 99.99999% of the time, the moron will do just fine.
hindsight2020 said:The problem in aviation is that the "entry level" period never ends! It is absolutely ridiculous.
Goose said:...but I certainly wouldn't take $20k per year to fly airplanes indefinitely. Are you kidding? My goal was to eat, pay bills, and fly. $20k ain't going to cut it for very long.
And don't give me that sh%t about doctors slaving on their residencies, yeah 45K is real rough on a single 27yo.
But aviation, nooo , here you get a degree and then a Masters , maybe a Phd while you're at it, since a TAship pays more part-time than what a GOOD salaried full-time CFI job pays...
Simply putting your nose to the grindstone and hoping for the best while you suck dirt for 10 years like a commited little pilot is simply foolish...
and to suggest that 'attitude' is the key to succcess in this business is naive and ultimately biased by the dynamics of those who judge the condition of any matter based on their particular circumstance...
...without opening themselves to the possibility that maybe just maybe, those who are born rounding 3rd base and those at the plate with a holed-up wiffle bat don't quite have the same condition, and 'attitude' (read the subjecitve quantification of 'realistic expectations') has sh%t to do with it.
Nobody makes 200K anymore, people at the bottom get bracketed up, no expectations (emphasis added) of blowing up. Do that, those who wanted the big time are dis-incetivized (sp?) and those who truly value their professional worth are able to EAT and perform a duty with pride.
Idealistic, perhaps, but I rather do that than whore out to a stupid high school speech about 'having the right attitude'.... I might be poor (ask the IRS they got tables for it) but at least I'm not a punk.