Gojet getting 50 seaters!

[007]

So, with all this grandstanding, tell me Mr. Bond.... what is the answer? Are you and your pilot group going to walk off the job to protest this injustice? Are you willing to donate a portion of your salary to help those who lost their jobs in this fashion? What are you going to do to help those furloughees who were unable to find jobs? Mind you, most have been in this industry way longer than you.

I'm really curious to see what alternate plan of action you come up with. Now also, bear in mind the legalese I posted above.

I am not grandstanding, I even understand and agree with some of your sentiment. I've been out of work..without even the benefit of unemployment. But coming on here and asking what everyone else is gonna do for you because you had a "real" career position isn't gonna get the reaction your looking for. In the end it is all your decision. If you can live with taking a job at the some of these companies who destroyed your career position then do it. Just remember that the cycle continues, except this time your putting people out of work. Not vice versa. Personally I think the sooner you quit to refer to the regionals as pilot whorehouses and treating anyone junior like an idiot, maybe they'll quit to be just that.

 

[Freight Dog]

You might want to read my posts a little closer. Here is the gist of my posts:

1) Most people on here are grandstanding about right and wrong, yet they don't practice what they preach. Case in point, paycuts/concessions to maintain/steal flying from other groups regardless of affiliations. If you read my posts closer, I quoted SimonSays because he referred to GoJet as a whorehouse.

2) NMB ruled that GoJet is a separate carrier from TSA over 3 years ago. ALPA accepted that ruling. They didn't appeal it or issue recruitment bans, or anything of the sort. Here's the ruling:

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf

3) Jumpseat is *NOT* a political weapon.

4) Comair is furloughing, ASA is about to furlough, Mesaba is hiring. You see anything wrong with this picture? Now, all of them are ALPA carriers - hell, Comair and Mesaba are now wholly-owned by Delta. How is this any different from GoJet/TSA?

 

[007]

You might want to read my posts a little closer. Here is the gist of my posts:

1) Most people on here are grandstanding about right and wrong, yet they don't practice what they preach. Case in point, paycuts/concessions to maintain/steal flying from other groups regardless of affiliations. If you read my posts closer, I quoted SimonSays because he referred to GoJet as a whorehouse.

2) NMB ruled that GoJet is a separate carrier from TSA over 3 years ago. ALPA accepted that ruling. They didn't appeal it or issue recruitment bans, or anything of the sort. Here's the ruling:

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf

3) Jumpseat is *NOT* a political weapon.

4) Comair is furloughing, ASA is about to furlough, Mesaba is hiring. You see anything wrong with this picture? Now, all of them are ALPA carriers - hell, Comair and Mesaba are now wholly-owned by Delta. How is this any different from GoJet/TSA?

1) Agree, there are lots of internet toughguys.

2) Not sure that appealing that decision would have made difference anyways.

3) Agreed

4) Very valid point about Mesaba/Comair. I see one major thing though. Gojet started as whipsaw company just like Freedom. Mesaba/Comair find themselves in this position as a result of a merger.
Gojet pilots chose to work for that company knowing that a.) during good times they were accepting terrible working conditions and pay in order to get a quick upgrade. b.) they knew (at least the direct entry captains) they were going to work for a company which was designed to undermine another.

I agree with your argument, but I still think Gojet is a different category. They are not scabs by definition of the word. But I think the mentality is the same.

 

[Freight Dog]

1) Agree, there are lots of internet toughguys.

Amen!

2) Not sure that appealing that decision would have made difference anyways.

Why not? By not fighting it, you give your endorsement of the decision. See, it takes the wind out of sails for those who are accusing GoJet pilots of being scabs or pseudo scabs or whatever you want to call them.

3) Agreed

4) Very valid point about Mesaba/Comair. I see one major thing though. Gojet started as whipsaw company just like Freedom. Mesaba/Comair find themselves in this position as a result of a merger.
Gojet pilots chose to work for that company knowing that a.) during good times they were accepting terrible working conditions and pay in order to get a quick upgrade. b.) they knew (at least the direct entry captains) they were going to work for a company which was designed to undermine another.

I agree with your argument, but I still think Gojet is a different category. They are not scabs by definition of the word. But I think the mentality is the same.

Are you referring to GoJet pilots hired in 2005 or 2008? To look at GoJet pilots hired in 2008 in same light as those hired in 2005 is wrong, and akin to looking at Continental or Airtran and automatically assume they're scabs and boot them off the jumpseat, shun them, etc.

It's wrong, in light of all the legalese, subsequent lack of action by ALPA, industry conditions and airlines shutting down, and then ALPA telling those pilots that GoJet is hiring, a GoJet 2008 hire is about as much of a scab/pseudo scab as any other regional pilot flying what was once mainline flying.

That's my whole point...

 

[inthepool]

Freight Dog and 007:

Thank you for being real.

 

[CX880]

People see what is happening to this industry and frankly do not care to save it. It has been on a downward spiral since the beginning. Why change anything now? No one, not even alpa can do anything about it. Look at MESA 08, there is no hope for the regionals. Arguably the best regional that even somewhat qualifies as a decent job is non union! It's irony. F it all. Get your time and move on to places where unions and qol actually matters.

 

[35off]

well said by one of the scumbags leading the pack.

 

[nwa_contrails]

Get your time and move on to places where unions and qol actually matters.

Disgusting. As you trample your fellow regional pilots to get ahead.

 

[Freight Dog]

Hey NWA and 35off... got a couple of questions for you:

What's the difference between GoJet/TSA and Mesaba/Comair today? Now please, bear in mind that I'm not talking GoJet in 2005. I'm talking GoJet today in 2008, and keep in mind what's taken place in the last 3 years.

Do you think it's right to bash the entire pilot group for actions of those pre-ruling, especially in light of what's going on in the industry?

Let me ask you this... would you take a World or North American pilot on your jumpseat? Are you familiar with what happened there?

 

[nwa_contrails]

Please, bear in mind, I'm talking about the GJ of 2008. You're entitled to your opinions and I'm entitiled to mine. Every GJer, regardless of hire date, is in the same boat. The "new-hires" should have done their research before they joined, even though I'm sure most of them didn't. The way GJ was created was wrong. It impacted all the pilots at TSA, (and other carriers), and still contines to do so to this day.

Yes, the NMB gave them the SCP but does that make it right? Of course not. So what if ALPA didn't do anything about it either, they've got bigger fish to fry. And don't go off on your tangent about right and wrong. I've read it. You also try to compare GJ to others, and I don't think you can. GJ is unique, and I hate using that word with them, but it's true. You speak of Mesaba and Comair being wholly owned, however, do the offices of both companies reside in the same building, right down the hall from each other? Does the money from one carrier go to purchase new planes for and fund the continuance of the other? Do Comair airplanes and Mesaba airplanes sit next to each other in the hangar and get worked on by the same techs?