************************* goes Teamsters

[pianoman]

All airline unions suck. I haven't seen any airline do squat execpt takes dues money for the past 10 years.

Hmmm... within the last ten years didn't UAL, DAL, and NWA all sign huge pay rate increases? Even now, FedEx is still doing well. I think sometimes people have unrealistic expectations of airline unions. They aren't ever going to keep you making max dollar if your company is tanking. No organization can do that. I think people forget that all these concessionary agreements were voted in by the pilots of the airlines.

 

[tjsatter]

tj __________________
Wer kampft kann verlierien, Wer nicht kampft hat schon verloren

Du hast schon verloren!

Dir hat man wohl ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruehren? Halt die klappe! Du kannst mich mal am Arsch lecken.

tj

 

[smokey999]

I thought some may be interested in seeing the full article.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/smallbusiness/story/F57D9C926B52B945862570B4001E76FD?OpenDocument

Also thought this was interesting:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/sciencemedicine/story/D97E8D43BC0B0DB3862570B40023413E?OpenDocument&tetl=1


G0JET PILOTS LOOK TO TEAMSTERS
WHAT'S NEXT: Teamsters Local 618 expects the National Mediation Board to order a representation election soon for about 70 ************************* pilots.

An overwhelming majority of pilots at ************************* Airlines, a startup regional carrier in Bridgeton, want to join the Teamsters union, a move the world's largest pilots union has said is tantamount to career suicide.

The creation of *************************, a regional contract carrier for United Airlines, has drawn the wrath of the Air Line Pilots Association leadership, which says ************************* pilots could become pariahs in the industry if they skirt the seniority list at their sister company, Trans States Airlines. The pilots union, ALPA, represents Trans States, which has seen some of its junior pilots jump to *************************.

The names of pilots joining ************************* have been listed on a Web Site, www.*************************Pilots.com, which disparages and threatens them. ALPA does not have anything to do with the Web site, spokesman Pete Janhunen said. While it's unclear who is responsible, the site has become well known among regional airline pilots.

ALPA's dispute with ************************* is part of larger battle to preserve pilot wages and benefits. One fear is that ************************* pilots ultimately will ratify a union contract that has them flying bigger planes, but at salary levels normally reserved for pilots of smaller aircraft.

Nevertheless, Teamsters Local 618 said Tuesday it expects the National Mediation Board to order a representation election soon for about 70 ************************* pilots.

"The overwhelming majority of ************************* pilots have expressed their desire to join the Teamsters," said Dan Heumann, Local 618's president.

ALPA contends ************************* and Trans States really are one carrier, so all the jobs are tied to a current contract negotiated by ALPA, which represents 64,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and Canada.

Heumann said ALPA's hard-line stance and the Web site continue to create problems for the Teamsters.

"************************* pilots find their names on Web sites. We don't know how the leaks are coming," Heumann said. "We're having our internal problems on how to put these fires out, (convincing them) that their careers are not in jeopardy."

The acrimony between the ************************* and Trans States pilots and the two unions began when Trans States Holdings, controlled by St. Louis businessman Hulas Kanodia and his family, created ************************* as a second, but separate, company to spur growth and to fly bigger planes.

ALPA has said some junior pilots at Trans States defected to ************************* so they could skirt seniority rules and attain the coveted pay and rank of a captain much faster. ALPA, whose cause has included picketing at Lambert and other airports, contends that Trans States pilots should have first crack at flying *************************'s bigger 70-seat regional jets.

Trans States operates a fleet of about 73 aircraft, none of which has more than 50 seats because of restrictions negotiated between American Airlines and its union pilots.

The restrictions are seen as a measure of job protection for major-airline pilots worried about seeing their workload outsourced to the regional pilots, who overall have lower pay and leaner benefits packages. The restriction applies to Trans States, because it operates as an AmericanConnection carrier and extends to the company's other airline agreements.

ALPA argues that ************************* is not a separate airline, but rather an "alter ego," designed to circumvent Trans States' restrictions. ************************* denies that claim and began flying as a United Express carrier last month.

[email protected] 314-340-8206

 

[jetfo]

Dir hat man wohl ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruehren? Halt die klappe! Du kannst mich mal am Arsch lecken.

tj

Benehmen haben sie offensichtlich nich gelernt! Vielleich sollte ich mal ihre Kommentare uebersetzen, dann koennen sie von diesen Bord verschwinden.

 

[synchoff]

Hmmm... within the last ten years didn't UAL, DAL, and NWA all sign huge pay rate increases? Even now, FedEx is still doing well. I think sometimes people have unrealistic expectations of airline unions. They aren't ever going to keep you making max dollar if your company is tanking. No organization can do that. I think people forget that all these concessionary agreements were voted in by the pilots of the airlines.

HEY DORK, WAY TO EDIT MY POST AND TWIST MY WORDS.

I said at the REGIONAL LEVEL. Unless you're gonna cite COMAIR? You know, the airline that took contract concessions 1 year after they "won" them, and are currently furloughing big-time AND talking about greater concessions?

 

[pianoman]

HEY DORK, WAY TO EDIT MY POST AND TWIST MY WORDS.

I said at the REGIONAL LEVEL. Unless you're gonna cite COMAIR? You know, the airline that took contract concessions 1 year after they "won" them, and are currently furloughing big-time AND talking about greater concessions?

First, no need to resort to name calling just because I don't agree with you. Second, nowhere in either of your posts did you mentional "regional" level. So I wouldn't know that's what you're talking about, would I?

The point of my post is that it's not big bad ALPA or IBT making pilots take concessions. The union faciltates negotiation in good and bad times. Both of the organizations have a structure in which pilot reps are elected (and sometimes recalled). They come up with a negotiating committee. Then the pilots vote on the agreements, good or bad.

It's a cop-out to blame ALPA or IBT for an agreement the pilots signed. What should the unions have done? Disregard the majority will of the pilots? We need to take some accountability for our own actions.

Again, pilots all voted on these agreements. The responsibility lies solely on their shoulders.

 

[KL24]

What are all of you TSA guys going to complain about if *************************s ends up with a better contract than you? It should have been yours? IBT is a sellout?

I'd much rather work on the Horizon pay scale as negotiated by IBT than the TSA scale by ALPA. Each union screws people, get over trying to argue ALPA is the best, it's not at our level.

But what do I know?

Those darn union busting union airline pilots.

(no I don't work for GJ)

 

[incubus]

if gojjet has a better contract than tsa then i along with everybody else will eat a big plate of shut the fuk up.

 

[millhouse21]

I really don't think that is something we need to worry about.

 

[TSA ERJ]

It's not about whether or not they get a better contract. It's about the long term effects of an alter ego carrier. A couple of dollars an hour is nothing to Hulas knowing he will get it back in spades when he starts whipsawing BOTH carriers in future contract negotiations. It doesn't matter what these guys may make next week or next month. but the effect it has on fair, good faith bargaining 3, 5, 10 years down the road, and how that will effect every other regional as well.

 

[islandhopper]

It's not about whether or not they get a better contract. It's about the long term effects of an alter ego carrier. A couple of dollars an hour is nothing to Hulas knowing he will get it back in spades when he starts whipsawing BOTH carriers in future contract negotiations. It doesn't matter what these guys may make next week or next month. but the effect it has on fair, good faith bargaining 3, 5, 10 years down the road, and how that will effect every other regional as well.

smart man

 

[islandhopper]

All airline unions suck. I haven't seen any airline do squat execpt takes dues money for the past 10 years. Oh, that and stand by while their contracts are raped.

ALPA, In-house, Teamsters, what's the difference? If there wasn't an RLA making union membership basically mandatory, no-one would ever join these loser organizations.

easy there tiger.. I hope to be able to convince you otherwise in a week or two. Then again, maybe i'll be eating the big plate of shut the fukc up. We will see. This is a critical time for ALPA and unions. We have never been under more attack and are definately on the ropes, but we still got a few surprises left. I hope!

 

[tjsatter]

if gojjet has a better contract than tsa then i along with everybody else will eat a big plate of shut the fuk up.

This is where the company fuked up the biggest. The proper way to fight a union and keep ALPA out of GJ is to show how much better off we'd be without the union. Had they tried to grab the moral high ground they might have done better. Had they started them out with better pay, working conditions, and benefits and then maybe they would have saved overall. The initial offer to TSA pilots to transfer was amazing for what it didn't say. Those guys over there are totally screwed and if they get teamsters it wil get even worse.

How come sperm- flo hasn't been talking about the guys that have already been fired on dubious grounds witout recourse?

tj

 

[h25b]

How come sperm- flo hasn't been talking about the guys that have already been fired on dubious grounds witout recourse?

tj

Why should he have to ??? Hasn't there been plenty fired at TSA on "dubious grounds" over at TSA as well ? Looks as if having a union has nothing to do with...

 

[pianoman]

Why should he have to ??? Hasn't there been plenty fired at TSA on "dubious grounds" over at TSA as well ? Looks as is if having a union has nothing to do with...

Actually, no union can prevent the company for terminating an employee. The difference is that when you're in a union, you have the right to the arbitration process, which may result is getting your job back if you have a strong case.