Go Jet Pilots no longer welcome on XJ?

[Airline Driver]

Oh f that. Yea, you're right, they're not scabs. But they are as close as one can get. This fluffiness game of technicalities is plain/plane silly. These ignorant a-holes that chose to work there are scumbags. Scabs - no, scumbags - yes. Unethical, selfish, and idiotic.

I can certainly understand your hostility. I am not saying that what they did was correct, and I even pointed that out in my post. I would put more anger towards Hulas Kadonas than I would the Pilot group. Managements game to pin one group against the other. Management wins again and we loose. We are so quick to blame other pilots that we all over look managements games of chess and we are the pawns.

 

[hyperboy]

In my new hire class we had a GOJets pilot, he said in his intro he worked for Trans States!! We all saw his old crew tag on his bag!! and it did'nt say TSA airlines!!

yet he was still hired......


Everyone says it's the end..It should be but it's not. Delta hires these POS's as well as many other Majors. What is the repurcussion?

 

[PCL_128]

Their fight is not my problem so I have no ill will twards any of them.

Great attitude. "If it doesn't affect me, I don't care." Yeah, just wonderful.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

[siucavflight]

PCL good post, however I can not take you seriously after reading in another thread that you feel that the cost of buying an airline ticket has stayed the same or become cheaper for the flying public.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

PCL good post, however I can not take you seriously after reading in another thread that you feel that the cost of buying an airline ticket has stayed the same or become cheaper for the flying public.

Wasn't there some sort of deregumalation-thingy a few years back that created more competition, more airlines and more capacity?

I thought that accounting for inflation, ticket prices are cheaper.

 

[labbats]

I can certainly understand your hostility. I am not saying that what they did was correct, and I even pointed that out in my post. I would put more anger towards Hulas Kadonas than I would the Pilot group. Managements game to pin one group against the other. Management wins again and we loose. We are so quick to blame other pilots that we all over look managements games of chess and we are the pawns.

Willing pawns who sign up to undercut a hard stance by a pilot group deserve to be labeled.

If your airline asked you to take concessions in return for more planes and you actually got the pilot group to create a line in the sand and say no, then how would you feel about the people who willingly took the job? This wasn't a contract handed out to an established company, it was another entity created solely to punish the pilots at TSA for saying no to Hulas.

Anyone and everyone affiliated with GoJets are labeled because they have made the decision to put themselves first. They will become scabs if/when decision time comes at the next level they achieve. Their line of thinking proves it.

 

[Airline Driver]

Great attitude. "If it doesn't affect me, I don't care." Yeah, just wonderful.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

Thank you Paster PLC, I will now go to confession and say 3 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Mary's. You are one of the last people who should comment on anything. You never stick to your guns and are changing your point on issues all over these boards. Your a typical Flip Flopper who jumps on the band wagon and never takes the lead.

Hence why the majority of the people viewing these boards thinks your an idiot. I am not all roses either but I stick to my guns and stand up for my points of view. I don't give a rat's crap if people like what I have to say or not but I do not change my story.

 

[PCL_128]

Hence why the majority of the people viewing these boards thinks your an idiot.

Never fails. Thanks for the laughs, Einstein. :laugh:

 

[AWACO]

What you fail to realize is that this IS serious ******************** you are messing with. People's lives and contracts are not "my dad can beat up your dad" issues.

You stab your fellow pilots in the back, you will not be welcome in my airplane. Ever.

And yet you got your time at a Pay For Training operation? And how are you better than GoJet?

 

[Iron Man]

It has been 2 years now and I am yet to read a positive post to merge the pilot lists at TSA and GJ. I would think it would be in the best interest of both groups. Why did the TSA union turn down the flying at GJ? Would they not have controlled both unions and then leverage their position. I believe all jets belong at mainline, and ALPA made a monumental blunder, and in true American fashion (open market) you guys compete. Dog eat dog. Hopefully oil is good to you.

 

[Simon Says]

Time fades the memory.

Gojets was started to break the union of TSA several years ago. Now that they are established people like "airline driver" and "Iron Man" think it is OK now, and that they deserve a fair shot just like anyone else.

I don't have a dog directly in this fight, but they (gojet) will not have any kind of fair shot on my airplane or anywhere else. That goes for the Freedom A listers too. I still have the original list of them too. I caught one awhile back coming out of Monroe, LA and denied him. I even asked him if he was an original Freedom guy once I found him on my list of "no-flies". He didn't deny it, but did show me his ALPA card. I don't give a rats arse if he showed me an FAA badge. If I catch you people, you are not riding for free if I can help it.

 

[Iron Man]

Dear Simon,
Thank you for your zeal, you are truly a man that stays the course. But, death changes everything. One day you will have a different perspective on everything including yourself. Graveyards around the world is littered with your zeal. Anyone in cass is welcome in my cockpit, it will allow them to get home to their families who really do not have a "dog in the fight". The baggage you carry may just sink your ship. Good luck and press on, regardless.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Dear Simon,
Thank you for your zeal, you are truly a man that stays the course. But, death changes everything. One day you will have a different perspective on everything including yourself. Graveyards around the world is littered with your zeal. Anyone in cass is welcome in my cockpit, it will allow them to get home to their families who really do not have a "dog in the fight". The baggage you carry may just sink your ship. Good luck and press on, regardless.

Yea, I'll remember all the families at Trans States affected by the Gojet completely selfish scumbags. Guess we should never lock up any criminals because, sniff, they have families.

 

[Ezralite]

Dear Simon,
Thank you for your zeal, you are truly a man that stays the course. But, death changes everything. One day you will have a different perspective on everything including yourself. Graveyards around the world is littered with your zeal. Anyone in cass is welcome in my cockpit, it will allow them to get home to their families who really do not have a "dog in the fight". The baggage you carry may just sink your ship. Good luck and press on, regardless.

What lovely rambling. What you call "zeal" I call "balls", something which seems to be sorely lacking in our profession. Particularly with dirtbags like HoJet pilots.

 

[Simon Says]

Dear Simon,
Thank you for your zeal, you are truly a man that stays the course. But, death changes everything. One day you will have a different perspective on everything including yourself. Graveyards around the world is littered with your zeal. Anyone in cass is welcome in my cockpit, it will allow them to get home to their families who really do not have a "dog in the fight". The baggage you carry may just sink your ship. Good luck and press on, regardless.

I agree with the baggage may sink my ship as I carry grudges of people stepping on other people in this career. It just kills me to see it happening throughout this industry.

 

[Raskal]

... They are taking advantage of an opportunity to get ahead themselves at the expense of an entire unionized workforce...

You mean like when the senior pilots throw the junior pilots 'under the bus' to get ahead, or when a merging pilot group leverages another for more money or when one company staples another to the bottom with no regrets or...

Not to pick on you at all, but sometimes I think the opinions around here tend to be very selective. From the limited time I've been involved with the 121 side I've seen pretty much everything but all the harmonious unity so many talk about.

I am not a GO supporter by any means, and I will of course honor our jumpseat agreements, but it's amazing some of the things we choose to devote our energies to while ignoring others.

 

[labbats]

While I agree with you in principal Raskal, I think you're missing the main beef with GoJets. The other companies involved in hurting our profession already had a workforce in place when those decisions were made. GoJets asked for applications of those interested in breaking the hard line that Trans States had made to Hulas. Big difference.

Long story short, GoJets is where people chose to work and hurt others, the other examples were full of people already working at an airline where management made those decisions. We can't deny the jumpseat to the management making those choices, but we are allowed to do that to pilots who did.

Everyone in the 121 world should send an e-mail to their jumpseat chairman and ask them to remove GoJets from the list. Seems that's the only power ALPA can wield anymore.

 

[Raskal]

^^

I admit my understanding of the history with Go and TSA is pretty limited, I'm actualy reading some stuff now. Again, I am far from a supporter and agree with the jumpseat change at our company, but sometimes it's frustrating watching our union unravel around us.

It's kind of funny, when I first came to this side of the business I really didn't see myself as being very involved in ALPA beyond the usual, but I've come to the conclusion that to really understand all of this I need to become active in it. I plan on trying to hold an office as soon as I'm able, if for nothing else than to gain an understanding and, who knows, maybe even help change some things for the better. We'll see.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

So after 6 pages whats the decision with GoJet and the jumpseat?

 

[Raskal]

I didn't think any decision was at stake, our (XJ) union has disallowed them from the jumpseat per the last memo I saw. That pretty much sums up the last 6 pages. Oh yeah, almost forgot, -- mesa sucks...

:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

It's kind of funny, when I first came to this side of the business I really didn't see myself as being very involved in ALPA beyond the usual, but I've come to the conclusion that to really understand all of this I need to become active in it. I plan on trying to hold an office as soon as I'm able, if for nothing else than to gain an understanding and, who knows, maybe even help change some things for the better. We'll see.

Now that's the kind of stuff I like to hear! Good for you. Be a part of the solution.

 

[nwa_contrails]

It's kind of funny, when I first came to this side of the business I really didn't see myself as being very involved in ALPA beyond the usual, but I've come to the conclusion that to really understand all of this I need to become active in it. I plan on trying to hold an office as soon as I'm able, if for nothing else than to gain an understanding and, who knows, maybe even help change some things for the better. We'll see.

:beer:

 

[saabservant]

I am just as willing to spew my wrath at alpa national for signing deals that throw juniors under the bus, and at the MEC's that sign on to it, as I am at the
freedom/hojets scumbags. Check my previous posts.

These whores are complicit in the destruction of a pilot contract that is in place, and in the degradation of this profession and our quality of life. I lump them in with scabs who cross picket lines, and the management types (like Foley, Spanjers) that are stealing from their companies and their employees.

Regardless, what alpa needs now is a little kick-a**
in-house discipline, from the bottom up.
Wonder what will happen to usapa if United and usair
do merge?

And yes, I have been involved, I volunteer, and have held office.
Thanks for getting involved, Raskal. You won't regret it...

 

[panamclipper]

Time fades the memory.

Gojets was started to break the union of TSA several years ago. Now that they are established people like "airline driver" and "Iron Man" think it is OK now, and that they deserve a fair shot just like anyone else.

I don't have a dog directly in this fight, but they (gojet) will not have any kind of fair shot on my airplane or anywhere else. That goes for the Freedom A listers too. I still have the original list of them too. I caught one awhile back coming out of Monroe, LA and denied him. I even asked him if he was an original Freedom guy once I found him on my list of "no-flies". He didn't deny it, but did show me his ALPA card. I don't give a rats arse if he showed me an FAA badge. If I catch you people, you are not riding for free if I can help it.

Do you honestly think the that the owner of Transstates would spend millions of dollars to start up an airline to bust the union at TSA?

If you know anything about HK (the owner) the opposite is true.

GoJt is a much an altered-ego as Republic, Chautauqua, and Shuttle. It was formed the fly 70-seat jets for United because TSA could not fly them due to the APA scope clause.

Their issue with the airline was one seniority list which the TSA pilots voted down.

There is alot of misinformation being spread on this board and others about this situation. I would not believe much that is posted here because of people who have misguided agenda's.

I think this is a big mistake by the XJ Pilots union to take this kind of position in regards to jumpseating and I believe there are misguided and misdirected in this position.

ALPA's stated policy is to not use the jumpseat as a political tool. This is not a good direction to take.

Good luck to all in this economy.. Don't think this is a good idea at this time.

Just my (5) bucks... (Inflation)

 

[airjackson]

Do you honestly think the that the owner of Transstates would spend millions of dollars to start up an airline to bust the union at TSA?

If you know anything about HK (the owner) the opposite is true.
quote]

Having worked at transstates, I can attest to the FACT that they will spend thousands to avoid paying hundreds. It is a principle issue for them. When it comes to the pilot's union (ALPA), they will spend without limits, postpone indefinitely, delay, and in some instances, ignore Judge's rulings. It has to be witnessed to be believed.

There is absolutely nothing in common with CHQ/REPUBLIC. When faced with the EXACT SAME issue (scope limiting AC size requiring a new certificate) Bedford made the right decision and allowed one pilot group to do all of the flying. No threats, no picketing, no one take it or leave it crap offer in order to get it done.

Really ,get you facts straight. Thank god I got out of 121. I finally work for a company that values their passengers AND employees. I will never go back to 121 world, nor will I EVER forget what the Gojet pilots stood for.

I will also never forget that it was the Teamsters who were all to eager to represent the Gojet pilots.

 

[Simon Says]

There is alot of misinformation being spread on this board and others about this situation. I would not believe much that is posted here because of people who have misguided agenda's.



Just my (5) bucks... (Inflation)

True statement about the misinformation, but with you working at GoJets you are the one that is or was misguided on the whole story.

And that is just my 5 bucks.

 

[motch]

PC-
I was part of the Union at the time the vote came down. I can give anyone the facts if they want to hear them...

Fact 1) The LOA that was presented to the TSA pilots had many holes in it.. big enough to drive a semi through! Anyone at TSA at the time remembers just how the company was abiding by the current CBA at the time.. it was a joke.

The LOA would have extended out initial contract for 4 years.. that was on top of the 2 year extension (to secure United Express flying, which is why we were give the opportunity to fly larger RJ's in the first place!) thereby making the original CBA at 10 year contract. Unacceptable.

The LOA also had payscales for 90 seat aircraft. A show stopper even if they had been industry leading.. and they were not.

The LOA allowed for the possibility of furloughs from the TSA pilot seniority list while protecting the initial GoJet pilots. Show stopper.

You bring up the issue of CHQ/Republic. I had a discussion with DT(z), in the lobby of the training center, about their example. If the company had tried to do something akin to what was done there it may have worked. But again, there are some differences. With CHQ/Republic/Shuttle America ther e was mergers and known pilot groups. With TSA/GoJet there was the start up of a new carrier to pay lower than what was in the TSA pilots CBA.

Anyone who knows me knows my opinion on this issue. If you want to blame anyone, start with the management team of Trans States Airline. They were the ones who started this mess. Then look next at the initial and early hires at GoJet. Those are pilots that stepped on the back of every union brother and sister professional pilot out there.. not just at TSA, but industry whole.
And last we have ourselves to blame for not stepping up and acting as a national union. Anytime a non union airline is formed to circumvent the CBA of a union carrier, we are all in danger. And we must all take action.

I voted NO, I would do it again. I will never forget those pilots and still have my GoJet list.
And to say that it was as simple as TSA pilots voting down a seniority list is not doing it justice. Are you a GJ pilot or know one... always find it interesting when someone tries to defend them

 

[CX880]

I voted NO, I would do it again. I will never forget those pilots and still have my GoJet list.
And to say that it was as simple as TSA pilots voting down a seniority list is not doing it justice. Are you a GJ pilot or know one... always find it interesting when someone tries to defend them

This is just a neutral observation. Gojet was formed because UA wanted TSA to have 70+ seat jets. AA's scope didn't alow TSA to fly 70+ seat jets. To get around this Hulas formed a new certificate, Gojets. I really have no idea why, I wasn't around then but TSA pilots said no, didn't think about the fact that Gojet was going to be formed anyways, someone WAS going to fly what should have been TSA jets, and that saying no to Hulas was futile. The fact is now Gojet is operational, they have a contract, they fly bigger airplanes with better pay. Meanwhile were is TSA and I for that matter? Still making one of the lowest wages at the regionals enjoying min days off, flying 50 seaters. Not sure who I should be thankful to. So the point is we can blame other pilots and airlines as much as we want but what have we to show for it? Especially at oil being at 120 dollars a barrel. Denying jumpseats is not the way to go. Gojet is not the problem. As someone said in the other posts we're all going to end up at someplace better than the regional anyways if we so choose. There's not much to work with at the regional level... but I'll still be wearing my ALPA pin.

 

[flyboyzii]

Hate me if ya want. I will give you a ride unless you have one of those "alter-ego" stickers..then we will talk in the jet bridge and I will show you my "alter-Eagle" sticker. If you have a problem..take the next one..I'm not hard to get along with but I won't put up with that crap. "you hate me unless you need a ride" Yea...we WILL talk. There are some really cool guys and gals at TSA but I ain't puttin' up with that crap. Hate me if ya want......don't care

 

[Ezralite]

So after 6 pages whats the decision with GoJet and the jumpseat?

The decision is: GoJet pilots are dirtbags.