GO Cleared for take-off!!

[turbinewhiner]

How much lower is go jet's pay than tsa?

 

[J32driver]

Nothing changes the fact that HoJets existance is in violation of TSA's ALPA contract. Just waiting for the BIG GIANT STAPLING SOUND.

 

[KingKong2]

Nothing changes the fact that HoJets existance is in violation of TSA's ALPA contract. Just waiting for the BIG GIANT STAPLING SOUND.

Two things:

1) Show me the word for word part of the TSA contact that GJ is violating.

2) Two union carriers can not just be stapled. The merger terms, in the unlikely event ALPA wins an arbitration, need to be negotiated with the offices of the NMB, in conjunction with the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.

 

[TSA ERJ]

Kong
1. Our interpretations of the wording are pointless. It will come down to who has the best lawyer.

2. Go Jet is not union so I will have no problem seeing them stapled.

And fuel flow, it doesn't matter to me whether GJ is staffed entirely by furloughed mainline pilots. All of the GJ pilots are actively and knowingly undermining another labor group, to both groups detriment. Only management will win on this one.

 

[A350]

TSA ERJ:

GJ pilots may be undermining another labor group, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

I have no problem with the fact that the regionals have grown on the backs of the majors. Business is business. Why is it OK for a union carrier to fly 50 jets for a mainline partner and put 50 jets worth of mainline pilots on the street but it isn't OK for you to get your contract undermined by a guy looking to feed his family and pick up the pieces of his shattered career?

You, and ALPA, are asking the mainline pilots to sit back and watch it happen to them for your benefit, but when it was your turn to say "enough is enough" and walk the line, you (as a group) turned your head and let it happen to someone else. Hypocrisy at its finest.

It isn't your fault personally, it is just the way it is right now. And your union is powerless to stop it. But alas you can start spitting on the GJ pilots and calling them names and put their names on a list and start denying them jumpseats. Just remember, what goes around comes around.

A350

 

[PCL_128]

GJ pilots may be undermining another labor group, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Not at all. Mainline pilots negotiated their scope clauses to allow certain flying to be outsourced. If they don't like flying going to the regional pilots, then they have no one to blame but themselves. No one's scope clause has been violated by allowing the regionals to grow.

GJs however, is a direct violation of the TSA scope language. The TSA contract specifically mentions that no alter-ego carrier can be created or controlled by Trans States.

In one case you have the scope clauses being adhered to completely. In the other case you have a scope clause being completely circumvented. No pot calling the kettle black here.

 

[A350]

PCL 128:

No, their scope clauses were wiped out in BK, just like their pensions and their no furlough clause. And it is easy to wipe them out because there are plenty of regional airlines feeding for the new flying.

Go ahead and enforce the scope clause. That way the new larger equipment will go somewhere else.

That is what you want, isn't it?

A350

 

[PCL_128]

PCL 128:

No, their scope clauses were wiped out in BK, just like their pensions and their no furlough clause. And it is easy to wipe them out because there are plenty of regional airlines feeding for the new flying.

Go ahead and enforce the scope clause. That way the new larger equipment will go somewhere else.

That is what you want, isn't it?

A350

There's nothing we can do about the BK laws. They are what they are. They certainly are not fair, but it's what we have to live with.

As for what I want, you have it all wrong. Look at my avatar. I'm against all of this RJ flying going to the regionals. I think these planes belong at mainline. What annoys me is when mainline pilots complain about this outsourcing when it's usually their own scope clauses that allow it. The NWA -9 pilots give us Pinnacle pilots crap all the time about "stealing" their flying. The truth is, we never "stole" anything. They gave it all to us with their scope clause. That's why this situation doesn't at all compare with the BloJets situation. BloJets is circumventing scope, while the regionals like Comair, Pinnacle, and Trans States are just adhering to scope that was negotiated by DAL, NWA, and the APA respectively.

 

[A350]

PCL 128:

Go Jets is circumventing scope at another airline and as a result, TSA pilots could get to fly an airplane that they might never get the chance to fly. But that would mean that they would have to say NO to the new flying/airplanes. Do you ever see that happening? I don't.

You may not like it, but I doubt you will be at your next union meeting telling everyone that you don't want the new flying and they should reject it. You won't make it to the parking lot.

I would think the mainline pilots have a pretty good argument for being a little put off by the turn the industry has taken. Obviously, you disagree.

A350

 

[eastflier]

One thing is for sure they will not be riding in my jumpseat!!!!

 

[KingKong2]

One thing is for sure they will not be riding in my jumpseat!!!!

U have NO jumpseat!!!!

 

[KingKong2]

2. GJ is not union so I will have no problem seeing them stapled.

They look like they will soon be unionized to me.....

http://www.teamsterslocal618.org/news-and-events.html

 

[KingKong2]

GJs however, is a direct violation of the TSA scope language. The TSA contract specifically mentions that no alter-ego carrier can be created or controlled by Trans States.

I think you are wrong about this..... Trans States Airlines INC. has not creted any airline at all. TSH Holding has. The ALPA contract is with Trans States Airlines INC. not TSA Holdings. So Go-Jet Airlines LLC can continue and is not an alter-ego to TSAirlines dispite ALPA's hollow thunder.

The alter-ego portion says something to the fact that "no alter-ego will be start to by-pass this CBA...." So, even if the above falls though, GJ was started to get around the APA CBA. So still no violation!

PCL.... maybe you should go to GJ's... Since MESBA is now geting all your new RJ's you will probably upgrade sooner there!!!

That $30,000 you spent at GA didn't teach you much. It really didn't teach you to keep your mouth shut....that is for sure!

 

[propjob27]

Proper usage of the word "scab"

Please quit using the word "scab" incorrectly. You're just making yourself look like an idiot, and doing a great injustice to the REAL scabs, seen here:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:uXfurbtOvAcJ:fracpilot.com/Scabs%2520by%2520Name%2520May04.PDF+Abbott,+Gregory+V+Eastern+scab&hl=en

-and-

http://fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think you are wrong about this..... Trans States Airlines INC. has not creted any airline at all. TSH Holding has. The ALPA contract is with Trans States Airlines INC. not TSA Holdings.

So that makes it all just peachy keen, eh?

So Go-Jet Airlines LLC can continue and is not an alter-ego to TSAirlines dispite ALPA's hollow thunder.!

Second most irgnorant statement on this board ever, right behind the moron that said PFT was worse than scabbing. I haven't read the TSA CBA, but if you have to nit pick this deep to find a loophole that allows you to justify that what you are doing doesn't directly impact the pilots of Trans States Airlines, your integrity as a professional has already been compromised. Just because its legal (and I'm no lawyer and don't know if it is) surely doesn't make it right. I don't know whats worse - knowing you are screwing TSA pilots, or that you have to justify it.