turbinewhiner
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J32driver said:
Two things:
1) Show me the word for word part of the TSA contact that GJ is violating.
2) Two union carriers can not just be stapled. The merger terms, in the unlikely event ALPA wins an arbitration, need to be negotiated with the offices of the NMB, in conjunction with the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.
Kong
1. Our interpretations of the wording are pointless. It will come down to who has the best lawyer.
2. Go Jet is not union so I will have no problem seeing them stapled.
And fuel flow, it doesn't matter to me whether GJ is staffed entirely by furloughed mainline pilots. All of the GJ pilots are actively and knowingly undermining another labor group, to both groups detriment. Only management will win on this one.
1. Our interpretations of the wording are pointless. It will come down to who has the best lawyer.
2. Go Jet is not union so I will have no problem seeing them stapled.
And fuel flow, it doesn't matter to me whether GJ is staffed entirely by furloughed mainline pilots. All of the GJ pilots are actively and knowingly undermining another labor group, to both groups detriment. Only management will win on this one.
TSA ERJ:
GJ pilots may be undermining another labor group, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
I have no problem with the fact that the regionals have grown on the backs of the majors. Business is business. Why is it OK for a union carrier to fly 50 jets for a mainline partner and put 50 jets worth of mainline pilots on the street but it isn't OK for you to get your contract undermined by a guy looking to feed his family and pick up the pieces of his shattered career?
You, and ALPA, are asking the mainline pilots to sit back and watch it happen to them for your benefit, but when it was your turn to say "enough is enough" and walk the line, you (as a group) turned your head and let it happen to someone else. Hypocrisy at its finest.
It isn't your fault personally, it is just the way it is right now. And your union is powerless to stop it. But alas you can start spitting on the GJ pilots and calling them names and put their names on a list and start denying them jumpseats. Just remember, what goes around comes around.
A350
GJ pilots may be undermining another labor group, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
I have no problem with the fact that the regionals have grown on the backs of the majors. Business is business. Why is it OK for a union carrier to fly 50 jets for a mainline partner and put 50 jets worth of mainline pilots on the street but it isn't OK for you to get your contract undermined by a guy looking to feed his family and pick up the pieces of his shattered career?
You, and ALPA, are asking the mainline pilots to sit back and watch it happen to them for your benefit, but when it was your turn to say "enough is enough" and walk the line, you (as a group) turned your head and let it happen to someone else. Hypocrisy at its finest.
It isn't your fault personally, it is just the way it is right now. And your union is powerless to stop it. But alas you can start spitting on the GJ pilots and calling them names and put their names on a list and start denying them jumpseats. Just remember, what goes around comes around.
A350
A350 said:
Not at all. Mainline pilots negotiated their scope clauses to allow certain flying to be outsourced. If they don't like flying going to the regional pilots, then they have no one to blame but themselves. No one's scope clause has been violated by allowing the regionals to grow.
GJs however, is a direct violation of the TSA scope language. The TSA contract specifically mentions that no alter-ego carrier can be created or controlled by Trans States.
In one case you have the scope clauses being adhered to completely. In the other case you have a scope clause being completely circumvented. No pot calling the kettle black here.
PCL 128:
No, their scope clauses were wiped out in BK, just like their pensions and their no furlough clause. And it is easy to wipe them out because there are plenty of regional airlines feeding for the new flying.
Go ahead and enforce the scope clause. That way the new larger equipment will go somewhere else.
That is what you want, isn't it?
A350
No, their scope clauses were wiped out in BK, just like their pensions and their no furlough clause. And it is easy to wipe them out because there are plenty of regional airlines feeding for the new flying.
Go ahead and enforce the scope clause. That way the new larger equipment will go somewhere else.
That is what you want, isn't it?
A350
A350 said:
There's nothing we can do about the BK laws. They are what they are. They certainly are not fair, but it's what we have to live with.
As for what I want, you have it all wrong. Look at my avatar. I'm against all of this RJ flying going to the regionals. I think these planes belong at mainline. What annoys me is when mainline pilots complain about this outsourcing when it's usually their own scope clauses that allow it. The NWA -9 pilots give us Pinnacle pilots crap all the time about "stealing" their flying. The truth is, we never "stole" anything. They gave it all to us with their scope clause. That's why this situation doesn't at all compare with the BloJets situation. BloJets is circumventing scope, while the regionals like Comair, Pinnacle, and Trans States are just adhering to scope that was negotiated by DAL, NWA, and the APA respectively.
PCL 128:
Go Jets is circumventing scope at another airline and as a result, TSA pilots could get to fly an airplane that they might never get the chance to fly. But that would mean that they would have to say NO to the new flying/airplanes. Do you ever see that happening? I don't.
You may not like it, but I doubt you will be at your next union meeting telling everyone that you don't want the new flying and they should reject it. You won't make it to the parking lot.
I would think the mainline pilots have a pretty good argument for being a little put off by the turn the industry has taken. Obviously, you disagree.
A350
Go Jets is circumventing scope at another airline and as a result, TSA pilots could get to fly an airplane that they might never get the chance to fly. But that would mean that they would have to say NO to the new flying/airplanes. Do you ever see that happening? I don't.
You may not like it, but I doubt you will be at your next union meeting telling everyone that you don't want the new flying and they should reject it. You won't make it to the parking lot.
I would think the mainline pilots have a pretty good argument for being a little put off by the turn the industry has taken. Obviously, you disagree.
A350
TSA ERJ said:
They look like they will soon be unionized to me.....
http://www.teamsterslocal618.org/news-and-events.html
PCL_128 said:
I think you are wrong about this..... Trans States Airlines INC. has not creted any airline at all. TSH Holding has. The ALPA contract is with Trans States Airlines INC. not TSA Holdings. So Go-Jet Airlines LLC can continue and is not an alter-ego to TSAirlines dispite ALPA's hollow thunder.
The alter-ego portion says something to the fact that "no alter-ego will be start to by-pass this CBA...." So, even if the above falls though, GJ was started to get around the APA CBA. So still no violation!
PCL.... maybe you should go to GJ's... Since MESBA is now geting all your new RJ's you will probably upgrade sooner there!!!
That $30,000 you spent at GA didn't teach you much. It really didn't teach you to keep your mouth shut....that is for sure!
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propjob27
I have people skills!
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- 469
Proper usage of the word "scab"
Please quit using the word "scab" incorrectly. You're just making yourself look like an idiot, and doing a great injustice to the REAL scabs, seen here:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:uXfurbtOvAcJ:fracpilot.com/Scabs%2520by%2520Name%2520May04.PDF+Abbott,+Gregory+V+Eastern+scab&hl=en
-and-
http://fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF
Thank you for your cooperation.
Please quit using the word "scab" incorrectly. You're just making yourself look like an idiot, and doing a great injustice to the REAL scabs, seen here:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:uXfurbtOvAcJ:fracpilot.com/Scabs%2520by%2520Name%2520May04.PDF+Abbott,+Gregory+V+Eastern+scab&hl=en
-and-
http://fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF
Thank you for your cooperation.
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BoilerUP
Citation style...
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KingKong2 said:
So that makes it all just peachy keen, eh?
Second most irgnorant statement on this board ever, right behind the moron that said PFT was worse than scabbing. I haven't read the TSA CBA, but if you have to nit pick this deep to find a loophole that allows you to justify that what you are doing doesn't directly impact the pilots of Trans States Airlines, your integrity as a professional has already been compromised. Just because its legal (and I'm no lawyer and don't know if it is) surely doesn't make it right. I don't know whats worse - knowing you are screwing TSA pilots, or that you have to justify it.
BoilerUP said:
1st I didn't dig deep...it is right on the surface.
"I haven't read...nor do I have any idea what I am talking about....but I will preach to you and tell you what you should do for your life." Why do all you 1000hr wonders pull this crap? Just wait till you get out of college/CHQ and into the real world. See what happens then.
BoilerUP
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You responded to my post with straight ad-hominum attacks, while doing NOTHING to address the integrity or ethical issues I raised. Are you ignoring the obvious, or are you too oblivious to understand how G0Jet's funding came directly from "TSA Holdings" which before G0Jets was formed gained their income from TSA Airlines? What of G0Jet having the having the same officers and same address as Trans States? What about how the pilots of TSA are screwed out of growth by the refusal to fly on a common seniority list like at Chautauqua? I may only be a "1000hr wonder" but I sure as hell know what it is to screw my peers and colleagues for my own selfish gain. Blowjet pilots aren't scabs, but they aren't much higher in integrity.
Besides, you don't know dick about my flight or work experience other than the obvious of where I attended college, but thanks for playing.
Besides, you don't know dick about my flight or work experience other than the obvious of where I attended college, but thanks for playing.
KingKong2 said:
Kong, I am sure you were the way you are now, back in college. The "real world" is a nice convenient excuse for dirtbag actions, just like SCABS had their excuses.
You never address BoilerUp's central point. Its the same refrain with you...alpa sucks...the industry made me do it...etc...
Your posting on these boards is swaying no one. You are alone with your fellow staple fodder.
Do not worry Go-Jet now has the 1st protest against their Certificate....If Barb gets her way they will never fly.....
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=340008&docketid=19877
the sky is finite. the country is finite. we cannot continue to load more andmore airplanes into the skies, causing utter destruction to those who live belowthese flight paths. they almost land in your yard these days!the people on the ground are being exposed to endless noise, danger and pollution what with drunk pilots, inadequately cheaply maintained planes, pilots who lie on their licenses, overloads and above weight airplanes, dirty polluted air. aviation gas is the most toxic. we say no and object to any more aviation companies. a moritorium should be in place. GJ should be rejected. this is an objection for the record.
I like the drunk pilot thing the best....
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=340008&docketid=19877
the sky is finite. the country is finite. we cannot continue to load more andmore airplanes into the skies, causing utter destruction to those who live belowthese flight paths. they almost land in your yard these days!the people on the ground are being exposed to endless noise, danger and pollution what with drunk pilots, inadequately cheaply maintained planes, pilots who lie on their licenses, overloads and above weight airplanes, dirty polluted air. aviation gas is the most toxic. we say no and object to any more aviation companies. a moritorium should be in place. GJ should be rejected. this is an objection for the record.
I like the drunk pilot thing the best....
BoilerUP
Citation style...
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KingKong2 said:
The original plan and numbers I saw put it about a buck an hour over the TSA 50-seat rate with no block-or-better, which would be AWESOME at ORD and IAD. Is this correct? If not, care to provide us with documentation of hard numbers, or are you betting the company will duly compensate you for your efforts?
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KingKong2 said:
1.ITS ABOUT THE SENIORITY....and you know it. That is why a one year fo with no scrupules jumps at the "opportunity". So even if you made 200/hr it would still be wrong. People have worked years here at tsa...what do you say to them? Why should you be in that seat? You have never and will never answer this question.
2.You won't make a fair wage at *************************, otherwise there would be no reason to whipsaw tsa. Which makes you even lower, because you would be a dirtbag, and for cheap.
Like I said, go try your Hojet idea at fed ex, southwest etc...you will get the same result as at tsa. You are a pariah for the rest of your life and your short career.
KingKong2 said:
A weak technicality that will not hold up to scrutiny before an arbitrator. This will end with an arbitrator ruling for ALPA and the HoJet pilots will be stapled to the bottom of the TSA list.
BS and you know it. TSA management doesn't need to create an entirely new pilot group to get around the APA scope. All they need is a new airline. TSA seniority list pilots could still be used for such an airline, and that's exactly what the TSA CBA requires. This isn't about getting around APA scope. This is about trying to break TSA ALPA.
No thanks. I sit in the top third of the Pinnacle list. I'm going to upgrade class in a few weeks. Thanks for the advice though.
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