Getting out?

[The_Russian]

All you guys who have been on this site a while seem to want out of the military. Well I really want to get into the military to fly. What reasons are you all leaving for? Thanks guys.

 

[BMW]

Leaving to spend a little more time with the family! Loved being on actuve duty, but its just that you are always on duty. Looking forward to leaving work at work.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Keep in mind that the mil folks on this board are looking for greener pastures. Those happy with their QOL are not perusing flightinfo.

With that qualifier, I'll tell you why I got out. The worst leaders I knew kept getting assignments and promoted. My last Sq CC was the biggest tool I have ever known. To a person, everyone in my unit would agree that this guy was incompetent, selfish, and lacked integrity. He was selected for AWC and will make O-6. My last Wg/CC was also the worst Wg/CC I had seen in 10 years and she recently made BG. So I got out because of what I perceived to be poor leadership.

 

[Deuce130]

The reasons I left are varied. I loved military flying, I had great leadership on the squadron level, some great, some horrendous leadership on the group and wing level, and thoroughly admired and respected the people I worked with. Indeed, the BEST peeps I've ever met have been in the military. I left b/c I saw an opportunity at FedEx, a very short window of opportunity. They were hiring like crazy and I had some "ins" at the company. I was also pissed off about the bonus. That is probably the only thing I was bitter about. The 20 yr bonus was a great deal and offset any pay you might miss out on the airlines (before the current collapse) and, in my opinion, was part of the perks of being a military pilot. When the bean counters changed it to a 5 yr bonus for FY 05, and now a 5 yr bonus for 06 with no money up front, it sent a very clear message to me. Also, the idea of serving alongside another pilot who I may outrank or supervise in five years, after my bonus had run out and his was still being put in the bank, rubbed me the wrong way. I also had a spot waiting for me in the reserves, which have been pretty good to me so far. It's tough to leave the big blue blanket, but sometimes it pays to gamble.

Russian, good luck in getting in the AF/USN/USMC. There's no better flying and no better training than you'll find in the military.

 

[schoolio]

I got out due to QOL and what was ahead of me. Of course, you have to look at the fact that I was an Army Commissioned Officer, and short of maybe 2 more years of "flying jobs" (a company command, and if lucky, a battalion command), my flying was pretty much done. I looked at the jobs that would have comprised the other 11 years of my career (to get to 20) and they were not jobs that I wanted. I saw the people that were in those jobs and they hated life. They were miserable. These guys would go to work at 6am and leave at 10pm, and they had wives and small children. I just got married in May, and this was not the type of life conducive to family.

Oh yeah, that and another year of living in a tent in the sand, not flying. You can see more about my current QOL (since I've been out of the Army) on my blog, in my signature block.

I don't regret my time one bit. If I had to do it again I would probably go air force. At least I would get to fly there.

 

[anasun2000]

Some people constantly show up for work late, call in sick five minutes before shift start, etc, etc. Despite the fact that they are clearly not an asset to your organization, you cannot fire these people. It appears that I am the lone enlisted person here, but the officer side of the house may have the same problem. Or maybe it is just an Air Force problem?

 

[schoolio]

Call in sick? hehehe there is no calling in sick in the Army.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

My experience is similiar to that of "Seinfeld". I think the cause of having $hithead leadership is what happened in the early 90's, IMHO. Back when I went on active duty, there was a RIF (redunction in force); the AF forced a bunch of people out. The smart ones left on their own with a modest severance pay and the WDs stuck it out. The ones who survived the RIF were usually the ones who could not make it on the outside. Now 15 or so years later, these f**kups are now commanders and are in other "leadership" positions.
Now, I'm not saying the dudes/dudettes who've decided stay in are all WDs. Infact, majority of my buds are still on active duty. Given the state of the airlines, who could blame them.
I had a blast flying in the military and made life long friends. No matter what you fly, military flying is a blast and rewarding. In some ways, they throw you to the wolves, but that's when your learning curve hits the L/D max. That's about the only good memory of the military for me. Now, I get to enjoy my family life and the freedom to just say "NO". No more "yesmen" for me!
May I suggest the guard/reserve? Good luck.

 

[ONEWAY]

ahh, the green flight suit..

It truly is great waking up in the morning, and zipping up the green flight suit... but as BMW said, it requires a lot of time away from the family....and depending on what the current task at hand might be, job satisfaction varies from time to time...

While pay is ok, and benefits are pretty much unparallelled, my family and I wish to stop being forced to move around...
I did enjoy it while it has lasted..

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

My experience is similiar to that of "Seinfeld". I think the cause of having $hithead leadership is what happened in the early 90's, IMHO. Back when I went on active duty, there was a RIF (redunction in force); the AF forced a bunch of people out. The smart ones left on their own with a modest severance pay and the WDs stuck it out. The ones who survived the RIF were usually the ones who could not make it on the outside. Now 15 or so years later, these f**kups are now commanders and are in other "leadership" positions.
Now, I'm not saying the dudes/dudettes who've decided stay in are all WDs. Infact, majority of my buds are still on active duty. Given the state of the airlines, who could blame them.
I had a blast flying in the military and made life long friends. No matter what you fly, military flying is a blast and rewarding. In some ways, they throw you to the wolves, but that's when your learning curve hits the L/D max. That's about the only good memory of the military for me. Now, I get to enjoy my family life and the freedom to just say "NO". No more "yesmen" for me!
May I suggest the guard/reserve? Good luck.

Finally someone who can recognize my excellent insight. Very interesting observation about the RIF in the early 90's. I think you might have it right. There are current base level senior leaders who expect their young CGOs to put in 10 hour non-flying days in between deployments. Keep in mind that just about every crew dog is deployed 200+ days! No thanks. UPS is widely criticized in its employee relations, but they are a breath of fresh air compared to some in the AD USAF. I did my time, did not complain, and am glad its over. The Reserves are an entirely different institution though and I have enjoyed in tremendously.

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

Seinfeld,

Were you stationed at Travis??

-LA

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

nope.

 

[Vingus]

I got out because the future looked alot less fun than my past.

You know, the typical "Gotta make everyone an O-6" carreer path. Less flying the line, more BS desk jobs supervising whiny Es or, even worse, civilian secretaries.

Plus, I spent my last tour in AETC, flying my butt off, but at least I was home every night. Looking at going back to a tanker unit and being strapped to AEF was not my idea of a good time. The above posts were spot on about having a wife and kids sure does change your priorities. As a snot nosed ROTC student, I sure thought the 30 yr AF carreer sounded appealing, but as a 37 yr husband/father of 2, not so much.

Personally, my wife was also getting sick of the constant moves and new friends and house routine. Not to mention the fact that she was sick of living in BFE all the time. Some of us are not from the farm and like city life. Oh, and she liked having her husband around too once and a while.

But I have to say, the airlines does not have the same feel as the AF. You lose that squadron commaraderie that I had, being that I fly with a new guy almost every time. Try to have a nice chat for a 3 day trip then say , "see ya in 6 months". Kinda weird, I must say. I think that this is the airlines dirty little secret. So you focus on the the little things that keep you happy. Like flirting with the cute FAs (I don't touch BTW), making a customer smile or laugh, a good restaurant or hotel on a layover, or your schedules flexibility and days off with lots of family time (unless you commute).

Just my two cents.

 

[pilotyip]

This subject has been gone over a bunch of times; you can do a search. Remember you do not join the military service to fly, you join to serve your country to fulfill the needs of the President by flying. You serve at the pleasure of the President. You will not fly that much in the Military unless you go to a conflict, Although Army WO's does stay in the cockpit more than any other service, and there is tons of office duties and family separation. In 11 years of Navy Active duty I got 2500 hours, 800 in 6 months during Vietnam, then averaged under 200 hrs a year. I was gone from home for nearly 4 years. Saw my son for about 11 months between his birth, which I almost missed, and his third birthday. If you go into fly, you will have a 10-11 year obligation, which as an officer will include at least 3-4 years of not flying and doing office duties, or standing phone watches at a command center evening and weekends. It is not a lot of flying. I got out because of a RIF of Viet Nam era pilots in the mid 70's. I was told if I wanted to stay I needed to get into non-flying career path. I got out and a year later the Navy is so short of pilots they are begging pilots to come back on active duty. It was a fantastic adventure and I would not change that part of career for any reason.

 

[Keydet]

Ditto most of what Pilotyip just said. If I had decided to stay in, I'd be in a non-flying job right now. Worse, after that, I'd go back to a dying community (VP) that has a severe vacuum right now of quality leaders. The experiences of being in a P-3 squadron these days can best be summed up by viewing the movie "Office Space". So far, commuting to the airline job hasn't been a lot of fun, but I'll gladly do it a few days a month versus sitting in Masirah, Kuwait, Misawa, or Okinawa for 6 months cranking out useless powerpoint presentations or other "TPS" reports.

 

[Ninja]

Retirement

Gents, I just recently retired - at just over 40 years old - and although it was tough, sometimes very tough - 42K + per year (for life with annual cost of living increases) and family healthcare is a nice payback. It is sad what is happening to many of my bros who made a decision to get out and I wish them all the best. To the young guys, look around...in general do you see any retired military pilots not doing OK financially?

 

[qmaster3]

I got out because the future looked alot less fun than my past.

You know, the typical "Gotta make everyone an O-6" carreer path. Less flying the line, more BS desk jobs supervising whiny Es or, even worse, civilian secretaries.

Plus, I spent my last tour in AETC, flying my butt off, but at least I was home every night. Looking at going back to a tanker unit and being strapped to AEF was not my idea of a good time. The above posts were spot on about having a wife and kids sure does change your priorities. As a snot nosed ROTC student, I sure thought the 30 yr AF carreer sounded appealing, but as a 37 yr husband/father of 2, not so much.

Personally, my wife was also getting sick of the constant moves and new friends and house routine. Not to mention the fact that she was sick of living in BFE all the time. Some of us are not from the farm and like city life. Oh, and she liked having her husband around too once and a while.

But I have to say, the airlines does not have the same feel as the AF. You lose that squadron commaraderie that I had, being that I fly with a new guy almost every time. Try to have a nice chat for a 3 day trip then say , "see ya in 6 months". Kinda weird, I must say. I think that this is the airlines dirty little secret. So you focus on the the little things that keep you happy. Like flirting with the cute FAs (I don't touch BTW), making a customer smile or laugh, a good restaurant or hotel on a layover, or your schedules flexibility and days off with lots of family time (unless you commute).

Just my two cents.

I remember you whining when your wife had my aftertaste in her mouth!

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Per Ninja: "To the young guys, look around...in general do you see any retired military pilots not doing OK financially?"
I never thought I'd say this but Ninja is correct. A nice retirement/pension plan, these days, is something to seriously consider. If you can stand 20 years in the military, it's a very good choice; that retirement will come in handy during turbulent times in the airlines and when the times are good, consider that $ bonus. The only draw back that I can think of going to the airlines after spending 20 years on active duty is the age thing; most, if not all of the dudes in your hiring pool will be younger than you. I for one could not stand another day on active duty for the reasons stated in previous posts, but if you can take the $hit then I'd recommend doing 20.

Regarding "whiney E's"..... they must have been wannabe pilots. I'm pretty sure that whining is a prerequisite to be a pilot, especially in the airlines. Without whining, the cockpit can be a very quiet place!

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I equate the Air Force pilot bonus with the question "Will you accept 1 million bucks in lieu of watching your children grow up."

An O-5 pension is around 35k not 42 and in either case is not worth me missing my kid's childhood. And on a final note, the thought of females with a mentally and physically deabilitating illness getting promoted to BG soley due to her gender is disgusting. One has to look only at the current crop of woeful O-6s in AMC to get a gist of politics in the Air Force.

The USAF, especially AMC, has morphed into a corporate culture of sucking up and repeating the party line. Our forefathers, Lemay, Dolittle, Spatz, and pioneers like Daugherty, Skantz and later on Fogleman have got to be heartsick with the current regime. Independent thought is crushed and discouraged and the only thing that lower level CCs are allowed to do are the things the Wg CC wants done to help get her promoted.

Most O-3s have been deployed nearly 300 days a year since 9/11 but the reported average is below 150 because the Wing Queens and her myriad of execs who aren't even current in the aircraft are factored in. Shame on the leadership for putting their career's ahead of the mission and the welfare of the troops. Thank God for UPS/FedEx/SWA and the business world who rewards innovation, creativity, and independent thought.

One should not stay AD because he/she fears the unknown. Take a chance! Anyone who is smart and works hard will have more success and a better QOL in the airlines or civilian world than in the USAF

 

[MaxTorque]

I am leaving the Coast Guard only because I have done 22 years and it is time to go do something else while I still have some years left. I loved it and would do it all over again. Good equipment, well maintained (the mechanics that fix the planes also fly in them as aircrew), a great mission, and good guys & gals to fly with. After 3 or 4 years in a spot my family kind of looked forward to seeing something else. I will admit that as the years rolled by the moving was less enjoyable. The job does change as you make rank and the CG doesn't have an official LDO program.

Unlike the DOD folks, we don't routinely have long deployments, a couple of weeks max. Standing the 24 hour ready every 4-6 days bugs some, but it is the real deal when you get awakened in the middle of the night to go get someone. The 65 pilots do occasionally deploy on the back of a Cutter for 6-10 weeks a pop.

CG's future is looking pretty good. The HH60s and reengined 65s are in good shape; The Herc is timeless (but the center wingbox issue looms), the HU-25 Falcon will be phased out for a CASA turboprop before long. I think we are going to be opening the direct commission pipeline a little wider in the nearterm for any DOD folks that want to come over. Also the competition for flight training has not been as stiff lately for the folks just starting.

Max

 

[Deuce130]

I equate the Air Force pilot bonus with the question "Will you accept 1 million bucks in lieu of watching your children grow up."

1 million bucks?? Where do I get that bonus???

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

1 million bucks?? Where do I get that bonus???

That was my point exactly. The bonus could be 10 million and it still would not have been worth it. You FedEx guys are a bit slow on the uptake.

 

[pilotyip]

Bonus Bonus, what is a bonus? lets see I was gone from home over four years in eleven years of active duty. I guess I did not spend adequate time with my kid. Before I knew he had gone off and joined the military to be a pilot. If only I had stayed home more I could have prevented him from pursuing this career. Thanks l'il'J for setting me straight, all these years I thought it was about service and not money.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

About service and not money? What the he!! does that mean? For me, it came to family before service. I did my part and now its my kid's turn. The post 9/11 schedules are soemthing you may not understand Yip.

 

[psysicx]

Is it hard to make 0-6 in the CG?

 

[MaxTorque]

Cg

Hard to make O6 in CG?

Harder for some than others... It seems like aviators have to really screw up or leave to not make O4. It is a lot harder to make O5 because the command of an aircraft that sounded great as an O3 doesn't compare as well with what the ship drivers and ops ashore folks are doing as O4s plus the positions start to kneck down quite a bit. After O5, you pretty much need your masters, the right jobs, avoid stepping on your crank or the wrong boss, and a little luck for the next step. Other than that - piece of cake!

Sure, there is some politics, but I think it is a pretty fair system.

MaxT

 

[Flystr8]

All Military personnel, active or not, have my total support!!!!

 

[Flystr8]

To all of you who serve or did serve in the military I commend you for serving under the complete incompetence of GEORGE W.BUSH and our current government reps.

 

[qmaster3]

To all of you who serve or did serve in the military I commend you for serving under the complete incompetence of GEORGE W.BUSH and our current government reps.

We appreciate your commendation Flystr8. But while people are dying, and you aren't among the ranks. Never pass up the opportunity to shut the f#ck up.

 

[Hdawg]

Bonus Bonus, what is a bonus? lets see I was gone from home over four years in eleven years of active duty. I guess I did not spend adequate time with my kid. Before I knew he had gone off and joined the military to be a pilot. If only I had stayed home more I could have prevented him from pursuing this career. Thanks l'il'J for setting me straight, all these years I thought it was about service and not money.

Four years out of 11 wow!!! ...I was home 14 months out of the last 6 years. It is about service.... but all these anti-bonus guys probably gave up O4-O5 pay to make E3 pay I'm sure.