Get ready for Age 67+

[Flopgut]

Wow...just wow. If you dudes don't enjoy YOUR job and feel the old geezers are shafting you, why don't YOU quit and let some other guy with starving kids have a chance. Sheesh...

They only enjoy their job because they are senior. They are only senior because they found a way to get senior that was outside normal collective bargaining agreement process. Is that something you would be comfortable with in your profession? You'd welcome those workers with open arms? Or would you consider that scab behavior like most of the people who work for a living?

 

[flyboyike]

Age 65 took food off kid's plates and shoes off their feet so a bunch of old guys could keep their toys. That's it!

Exactly. But, apparently, anyone who dares say that just has a "bad attitude".

 

[flyboyike]

Wow...just wow. If you dudes don't enjoy YOUR job and feel the old geezers are shafting you, why don't YOU quit and let some other guy with starving kids have a chance. Sheesh...

I bet you're only saying that because the shafting hasn't affected you. If/when it does, you'll sing a much different tune.

 

[Fubijaakr]

...is guaranteed to have an few sexually unsatisfied significant others. It's pathetic just how strong the tool factor really is in this profession.

You might be surprised how many people who love their jobs come home and keep their partners satisfied. Happy at work, happy at home. Love what you do and you never work a day in your life.

Really? Tell a ramper in the aft bag bin that the pilot making the 6 figure salary has starving barefoot kids! Typical liberal! Overreaches and it bites you...You want to pit one group against another and blame someone for your self-imposed shafting.

Gotta blame someone for not getting in the left seat of his 777 by age 30.

BTW-Why are you as a senior F/O's staying at the top of the bid list, ruining the chances of the guys junior to you who might want Christmas off so they can see their kids open an empty shoe box before heading down to the soup kitchen for dinner! Sounds mighty selfish to me, Flopster, might selfish.

True. Personally, I try to work holidays so the junior guys with little kids can be at home. But I'm a greedy, loser tool who loves his job.

It's eerie how well you have us pegged.......

Isn't it though?

Man, now THAT'S a stretch if I ever saw one. So your theory is someone who enjoys their job after many years is a sexual clod AND a tool. Wow...just wow.

Again, amazing, isn't it? Perhaps its the guys who DON'T like their jobs, go home p.o.ed who are sexually deficient.

If you dudes don't enjoy YOUR job and feel the old geezers are shafting you, why don't YOU quit and let some other guy with starving kids have a chance. Sheesh...

They won't, though.

Funny 10 years ago I seem to remember major airline pilots who were really hard up for ideas having a hobby like flying their Bonanza to Myrtle for a weekend of golf.

Why pay for a DoctorKiller when I can play 36 holes on my Maui layover? Or stroll the Quincy Market food festival on my Boston layover? Or enjoy the Manhattan Christmas decorations on my EWR layover? Or party on South Beach on my MIA layover?

My job provides plenty of time for rest, fun and relaxation in addition to flying SOMEONE ELSE'S $50M airplane AND getting PAID well to do so.

I'm on a 50 hour unproductive layover in the middle of nowhere. That doesn't afford the luxury of many of my pursuits in life which includes exercise/outdoors (unlike far too many lard @ss airline pilots).

Sounds like you need to use your imagination a bit more.

Ironically some of the guys who pledged to punch out at 62 are probably waiting for the perfect Junior manning "opportunity" to crop up this weekend to help "make up for what those b@stards stole from me!"

Or perhaps they're looking to cover for poor management staffing decisions. Why? To keep the Company making money so YOU have a future.

Four years ago I held Labor Day weekend off easily. I wonder what changed since then? Guess I'll wait around and maybe one day I'll realize how super awesome this career is...

Did you NOT know this was a seniority driven system when you signed up?

I bet you're only saying that because the shafting hasn't affected you. If/when it does, you'll sing a much different tune.

Age 65 hit EVERYONE. Some of us just realize that the law is the law and it isn't changing. AND its useless to whine about it.

Grow up, suck it up and do your job. Or quit and make room for someone who will.

 

[flyboyike]

Age 65 hit EVERYONE. Some of us just realize that the law is the law and it isn't changing. AND its useless to whine about it.

You're right. It hit EVERYONE. Except that it hit some people as quite a windfall and other people as a ******************** sandwich.

Stating facts and whining are two different things.

 

[flyboyike]

Grow up, suck it up and do your job. Or quit and make room for someone who will.

You first (quit, I mean).

 

[Bringupthebird]

You first (quit, I mean).

How about you keep working to 65, but donate 100% of your salary after age 60 to some charity.

Hey, I've got one on my signature!

 

[flyboyike]

How about you keep working to 65, but donate 100% of your salary after age 60 to some charity.

Hey, I've got one on my signature!

That's quite alright, I hope not to be alive that long, let alone flying.

 

[nimtz]

Y
Or perhaps they're looking to cover for poor management staffing decisions. Why? To keep the Company making money so YOU have a future.

GREAT STUFF AGAIN! Bro you should write a sitcom! You come up with some of the best pieces of fantasy on the oracle that is FI. I totally understand why so many respect your frequent opinions on here.

There is only one thing that the vast # over 60 pilots at CAL think of ME ME ME. Btw, wonder how the historical model came about that allows CAL management to think they can staff so thin? Well it's good to know the senior guys are doing what they can to 'fund the future!'

 

[CaribPilot]

I say we strike if this happens.

Look at the Arab spring and much of the protests across Europe. I am NOT saying these two situations are exactly the same...but when greedy old folks keep sticking it to the younger generation...it can get pretty ugly.

This reeks of GREED...plain and simple GREED. If you can't afford to retire at 65 then YOU have done something wrong.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

We have a book of exceptions to ICAO rules (ie. rules we don't follow or change to suit our needs), Age 60 could have been just another exception. Why do the Euros get to tell us how to operate airplanes anyway? This "line up and wait" bull$h!t is another example.

Also, JAA (or FAA for that matter) medical standards are WAAAAAY over the top. The environment isn't exactly flying the Hump in a C-47 anymore. The whole process is an unnecessary exercise that keeps AME's in lucrative cash businesses and a whole lot of people in Ok City employed.

You want to keep everybody 'safe' (wink wink), do like law enforcement agencies, fire departments, and air traffic control does....retire the worker bees early.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I say we strike if this happens....This reeks of GREED...plain and simple GREED. If you can't afford to retire at 65 then YOU have done something wrong.

I agree. YOUR GREED. YOU want the Captain seat. And you think you're owed it NOW. Sorry, Charlie, but them's the breaks. YOU chose to enter the airline business in a time of unprecedented upheaval and change.

Too bad for you. That doesn't mean YOU'RE owed anything. Not an upgrade, not a better line, not off reserve. You KNEW the volatility of the airline business going in. And if you didn't then you're just plain stupid.

And you can't fix stupid.

Why do the Euros get to tell us how to operate airplanes anyway? This "line up and wait" bull$h!t is another example.

Its called standardization and it prevents accidents. Considering the accident record at FedEx, I would think you'd appreciate that.

You want to keep everybody 'safe' (wink wink), do like law enforcement agencies, fire departments, and air traffic control does....retire the worker bees early.

Again, agreed. With the caveat that the pension program is the same as with cops, firefighters and ATC...100% pay at regulated retirement date. I'm down with that.

 

[Flopgut]

Again, agreed. With the caveat that the pension program is the same as with cops, firefighters and ATC...100% pay at regulated retirement date. I'm down with that.

This is the real problem we have right now. You've got this huge emotional investment in making your point that 65 should be retirement age. Nevermind that it is now, you still argue like it's not. And then you make this statement?! Go check out rrb.gov and see what we're ALL missing out on. That sort of effort is out there. The problem is old guys like you lack the ability to listen to an idea from a young guy. And, you've all got this seniority stealing bloodlust after changing retirement age you're blinded to good ideas.

You are probably going to get means tested out of your military pension, and we're all going to get means tested out of SS more than likely. How about we all start pulling in the same direction?

 

[Bringupthebird]

The problem is old guys like you lack the ability to listen to an idea from a young guy. And, you've all got this seniority stealing bloodlust after changing retirement age you're blinded to good ideas.

You don't think comments about licking a cat and starving, shoeless children of airline pilots undermine your credibility to advance such ideas, do you?

When you say that a senior pilot remaining senior steals someone else's seniority, you prove a lack of understanding about the nature of seniority. Would you prefer a merit system, rather than seniority?

 

[Flopgut]

Listen, what I would prefer is that we all start towing the line in the same direction! OK? We can't keep raising the age. It's just not going to work to have 20-25% of the profession working against the majority over raising the age. I didn't say "starving children". I said "age 65 took food off kid's plates and shoes off their feet". And it did! The bottom half of this profession is living a demonstratively different lifestyle than the top half ever did! We have 14 year FOs that make less than 60K. Not the "six figures" you challenged me to tell a ramper in an earlier post.

I've tried to work this professionally through the right channels and it failed miserably. I can only coddle to you old guys so much. You've been made aware what the right thing to do is. You all have to own up to this at some point. The whole deal was really poorly done. Bad decision making prevailed and no one thought it out. The rule was written to not let any retired pilot come back with seniority. So how many came back? Basically zero. So obviously they didn't want the job unless it guaranteed them something they previously had no claim to. In other words, they were stealing it. You can't sugar coat it! Do a little research. Seniority in the airline world is not really what employment seniority is meant to be. If some form of real world employment law were in effect for airline workers, there is no way a retirement age increase would have been allowed to take place in a time of redundancy. I prefer seniority. But seniority got called off when we decided retirement date was less important than DOH and then did not arbitrate the order and award. My belief is that arbitration would have resulted in the age change being phased in, shich would have been far more fair. Some guys got 5 years at the top, some got 5 years of furlough. Are we not any better than that?

If you are a captain, then I doubt you're a very good one. Captains have to be ready to acknowledge what the right thing to do is, even if they don't really like the person.