Gary Kelly's ATN Comments at Message To The Field

[MILF Hunter]

I got to attend the Message To The Field in San Diego the other day. What an awesome party! Everyone had a great time.

Gary talked about AirTran several times throughout the night.

First, he said it could take until 2015 to integrate ATN into SWA. Given that Gary stated in his Battle Plan that AirTran employees would remain under their contract until integration is complete, that could really suck!

Second, he said SWA is unsure about charging fees on ATN flights during the integration due to the fact that recent ATN financials show they would be losing money without the fees.

Finally, he expressed concern over the bad attitudes a poor SLI could create at SWA, though he wouldn't commit to a specific plan to deal with the possibility.

 

[Kharma Police]

OMG!, did he really say all that stuff?!?! Wow!, now I'm REALLY scared!

 

[General Lee]

OMG!, did he really say all that stuff?!?! Wow!, now I'm REALLY scared!

Give in! Accept a staple! The arbitrators won't give you a better deal. If you see a current SWA pilot, kiss his shoes!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

Second, he said SWA is unsure about charging fees on ATN flights during the integration due to the fact that recent ATN financials show they would be losing money without the fees.

Ok. Maybe now instead of having an actor portray the "evil airline CEO who charges fees", Gary can appear in the commercials himself?

 

[Lear70]

Figured it wouldn't happen until end of 2013 / early 2014 anyway, just too many people to train, aircraft have to be pulled from service to be repainted and reconfigured, etc, etc. Lots to do for certain, but doesn't mean integrating employee groups under one CBAgreement and one CBAgent can't happen faster.

Really, not all that concerned. What will be, will be. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Red Baron]

Really, not all that concerned. What will be, will be. Enjoy the ride.

Well said. Why worry about tomorrow, today has enough troubles of its own.

 

[roughneck]

but doesn't mean integrating employee groups under one CBAgreement and one CBAgent can't happen faster.

A reasonable SLI will be the factor that decides when and if AirTran gets to operate under the Swapa CBA and when that will occur.

 

[General Lee]

A reasonable SLI will be the factor that decides when and if AirTran gets to operate under the Swapa CBA and when that will occur.

Total BS. Remember, seniority is forever. Wait it out for arbitration if needed. Also, recent SUCCESSFUL mergers had the joint contract and pay raises FIRST, then the SLI. Don't do it the other way around, like USAir TRIED.....


Bye Bye---- General Lee

 

[roughneck]

Also, recent SUCCESSFUL mergers had the joint contract and pay raises FIRST, then the SLI.

There will not be a JCBA. This isn't an ALPA/ALPA merger of equals it is an acquisition by Southwest Airlines and will be handled differently.

Wait it out for arbitration if needed.

An arbitrated award has nothing to do with when the AirTran guys get our CBA. This is an acquisition and the date in which the SWAPA CBA will apply to AirTran will be determined between SWA and SWAPA not by an arbitrator.

 

[stalker]

General why do you continuously flap your gums about this? Fact is you have no idea how it is going to be handled and what the outcome will be. The other fact is there are only a few who know how it will be handled. Those are the SWAPA NC and THE AAI MEC. Outside of the people on those teams everyone else is just blowing hot air and has no idea.

 

[General Lee]

There will not be a JCBA. This isn't an ALPA/ALPA merger of equals it is an acquisition by Southwest Airlines and will be handled differently.



An arbitrated award has nothing to do with when the AirTran guys get our CBA. This is an acquisition and the date in which the SWAPA CBA will apply to AirTran will be determined between SWA and SWAPA not by an arbitrator.

So, I guess you don't want a "smooth" merger like DL/NWA? I keep telling you to achieve one, you must follow the pattern. The USAir guys did not, and they have had a bad one. The UAL/CAL guys haven't gotten their JCBA, and they aren't doing well yet. If you want a smooth transition, then you will include the AT guys into your contract and payrates. MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT THAT. If that is the case, then it will be rough.

The CBA may be determined by SWA and SWAPA, but the seniority WILL be determined by an arbitrator. You just can't say it won't. If GK want to sequester the two groups, then your culture is DEAD. I can't see him doing that, and the arbitration for seniority will happen sooner or later. I think they should hold out and eventually they WILL have both the seniority and the CBA pay/benefits. It will happen. Keep saying it won't. You are holding the payrates for ransom while hoping they will give in for seniority. That won't happen, and it makes you guys look ridiculous.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

long pole in the tent will be how long it takes to make all those boarding area poles with your boarding number on them.

 

[General Lee]

General why do you continuously flap your gums about this? Fact is you have no idea how it is going to be handled and what the outcome will be. The other fact is there are only a few who know how it will be handled. Those are the SWAPA NC and THE AAI MEC. Outside of the people on those teams everyone else is just blowing hot air and has no idea.

It makes great TV viewing. We all know how the SWAPA NC operates, offering the F9 guys a staple job, which was crazy. Now, without GK's thumbs up or thumbs down approval, SWAPA is left to try to craft something that we all know will also be ridiculous, and we all know an arbitrator will be involved to see this through. That isn't the CBA, rather ONLY the SLI. If the SWA guys don't want to include the AT guys in the CBA, then that shows what kind of shallow jerks they are. (like USAIr East guys) You will NEVER be a team if you mistreat the otherside right off the bat. YOU aren't giving the AT guys anything, SWA is. You aren't being asked to give up a dime. GK and Wall St bought Airtran, NOT YOU. Get over yourselves. And this is a public forum, so if you don't like it, go to a SWAPA forum.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

It makes great TV viewing. We all know how the SWAPA NC operates, offering the F9 guys a staple job, which was crazy. Now, without GK's thumbs up or thumbs down approval, SWAPA is left to try to craft something that we all know will also be ridiculous, and we all know an arbitrator will be involved to see this through. That isn't the CBA, rather ONLY the SLI. If the SWA guys don't want to include the AT guys in the CBA, then that shows what kind of shallow jerks they are. (like USAIr East guys) You will NEVER be a team if you mistreat the otherside right off the bat. YOU aren't giving the AT guys anything, SWA is. You aren't being asked to give up a dime. GK and Wall St bought Airtran, NOT YOU. Get over yourselves. And this is a public forum, so if you don't like it, go to a SWAPA forum.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee, those guys will never see anything but hatred at their combined airline. What a nightmare.


OYS

 

[Kharma Police]

General Lee, those guys will never see anything but hatred at their combined airline. What a nightmare.


OYS

I seriously doubt it. The vast majority of Southwest pilots that I have come in contact with have gone out of their way to be friendly. The few postings on an anonymous message board have not been a true reflection of the Southwest pilot group.

 

[Lonestar]

Figured it wouldn't happen until end of 2013 / early 2014 anyway, just too many people to train, aircraft have to be pulled from service to be repainted and reconfigured, etc, etc. Lots to do for certain, but doesn't mean integrating employee groups under one CBAgreement and one CBAgent can't happen faster.

Really, not all that concerned. What will be, will be. Enjoy the ride.

Lear, I'll have to stress what Milf hunter stated earlier. Although you say (and hope) it doesn't mean integrating employee groups under one CBA can't happen sooner, Gary has said he won't.
This isn't SWA pilots trying to piss off AAI pilots; this is Gary saying what will and won't happen.

 

[T3700]

The NLRB determines the representation of employee groups. As long as AirTran is operated as a separate entity, They may be represented by a different union. Once the integration begins, (painting 717s in SWA colors, issuing tickets from SWA instead of AirTran, etc) things will change. If you think AirTran pilots are going to be flying around in SWA painted tails carrying pax with tickets issued by SWA, while represented by a different union and contract, you may be surprised. If the NLRB determines that the AirTran pilots will be represented by SWAPA, they will come under your contract.

 

[roughneck]

If the NLRB determines that the AirTran pilots will be represented by SWAPA, they will come under your contract.

Just like all ALPA carriers operate under the same contract? You obviously don't understand how this works.

 

[stalker]

Thats funny, all of US AIRS airplanes are painted the same color and they work under two different contracts!

 

[dicko]

A reasonable SLI will be the factor that decides when and if AirTran gets to operate under the Swapa CBA and when that will occur.

Were you bullied as a child ..... Is that the problem ?

 

[Flyer1015]

With no integration until 2013/2014/2015, does this mean SWA/AAI will not be hiring until then?

 

[The Prussian]

General Lee, those guys will never see anything but hatred at their combined airline. What a nightmare.

General Lee, on the other hand, continually asks himself why he went with DAL, when he could have been a Captain at SWA. Instead, now, his envy of SWA turns into continuous rants about LBB overnights, and wishing death and destruction towards all SWA pilots...that's the nightmare he has to wrestle with every night. What a nightmare.

 

[roughneck]

does this mean SWA/AAI will not be hiring until then?

SWA is hiring right now with plans to continue.

 

[Lear70]

Just like all ALPA carriers operate under the same contract? You obviously don't understand how this works.

What he's talking about is a Single Carrier Filing for Collective Bargaining purposes.

There are varying results from a Single Carrier Filing, some have met with limited success and some have been more successful. The one thing that seems to be the delineating factor in whether a SCF is successful is how management is structured and whether the company really IS operated separately (separate management, separate scheduling and operations control centers, separate certificate, and separate offices).

This is all just speculation, as I still have no doubt of GK's desire to achieve the savings from fully integrating operations in a quick and efficient manner (I don't see any hostility in an SLI, from all reports, both Merger Committees are still working together, and every group has their 2%'ers). Therefore, I highly doubt a Single Carrier Filing will be required.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Seriously, if I were an AT pilot, I would agree to a staple. Not flaming here at all. AT guys just hit the lottery with SWA buying them out.

Culture is number one priority at SWA. If you guys think that GK is going to screw over and piss off his junior FOs, you're nuts. Take a staple and count your lucky stars. Otherwise, you'll likely get nothing and never be integrated. 2015 for an SLI is very telling. A lot can happen by then.

 

[Bill Nelson]

What he's talking about is a Single Carrier Filing for Collective Bargaining purposes.

I think the point Roughneck was making is even if Swapa is the representative group, it doesn't mean they will work under the current Swapa contract. ALPA represents many different groups under the same umbrella but with different CBA's. Swapa would probably do the same if ALPA dumped the AirTran pilots and Swapa was the representative group before the operations are combined.

 

[Bill Nelson]

2015 for an SLI is very telling. A lot can happen by then.

Like the effect that Egypt and the Middle East coupled with potential $150 oil can have on a break even operation like AirTran. I don't think GK is going to risk SWA when he has options. He will ALWAYS keep his options open. A smooth SLI and labor peace will make this decision much easier for him.

 

[Ty Webb]

Seriously, if I were an AT pilot, I would agree to a staple. Not flaming here at all. AT guys just hit the lottery with SWA buying them out.

Culture is number one priority at SWA. If you guys think that GK is going to screw over and piss off his junior FOs, you're nuts. Take a staple and count your lucky stars. Otherwise, you'll likely get nothing and never be integrated. 2015 for an SLI is very telling. A lot can happen by then.

Hey! Look who just finished his latest round of electro-shock therapy! Welcome back, Bobby!

Unfortunately, now when a FA puts something in the microwave, Bob soils himself, froths at the mouth, and starts stapling his own genitals with a little, bitty Swingline stapler he carries for just this purpose.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hey! Look who just finished his latest round of electro-shock therapy! Welcome back, Bobby!

Unfortunately, now when a FA puts something in the microwave, Bob soils himself, froths at the mouth, and starts stapling his own genitals with a little, bitty Swingline stapler he carries for just this purpose.

I thought I was on your ignore list?

Sorry bud, I'm just trying to talk some sense into you guys from a outsiders perspective. At this rate, it looks like you're going to blow it. Southwest will not destroy their company culture. If they do, they know that will be the beginning of the end. The will protect their own. It is practically written in their business plan. Either you guys take a staple, or plan on never going over. JMHO.

I love how General Lee is now your ally and biggest cheerleader. He is steering you guys down the path of destruction.

 

[Bake]

You know, the more I read from GL the more I'm starting to think he is at AirTran. Welcome aboard General.