G0JETS Blows

[Kingairrick]

PCL has expressed multiple times his regret at making the decision he made, but yet he continues to be bashed on this board, including by you.

The problem with PCL128 is his lame "I was young and inexperienced @250 hours" argument. Now that he's a wise old 2900 hour FO, we should forgive him and take his opinions as the way it REALLY should be...What's he going to regret next year?

I admire his conviction, but there are many more experienced poeple here whose opinion he bashes. It comes across as a little arrogant.

 

[PCL_128]

It comes across as a little arrogant.

Just a little? Dang, I guess I need to kick it up a notch.

I went to GIA 5 years ago. Do you mean to tell me that you haven't done anything and then realized a few years later that it was a mistake? If so, then I'll happily admit that you're a better man than I.

 

[Kingairrick]

So, 5 years from now all these GJet guys have to do is admit it was a mistake and they are off the hook also. Your logic, not mine.

 

[PCL_128]

So, 5 years from now all these GJet guys have to do is admit it was a mistake and they are off the hook also. Your logic, not mine.

You're still not paying attention. As I've said many times, there is a big difference between a 250 hr newbie and a furloughed ALPA member. BloJets isn't hiring low-time pilots that don't know any better. These guys know how their actions are affecting the TSA pilots and they just don't care. People should be forgiven for honest mistakes. They shouldn't be let off the hook for intentionally screwing over their fellow pilots.

 

[vclean]

Stupid or not, PFTs like yourself lack credibility. It's ok to happily pay for a job and screw a fellow pilot who paid his/her dues, but you dam-n to hell anyone who even thinks of accepting a job not blessed by the almighty ALPA.

 

[Kingairrick]

I am paying attention. We are ALL still learning. GJets is hiring relatively inexperienced people. Your experience level. I made many mistakes that I regret well after 3000 hours. My point is that there will always be a higher level that you will hopefully achieve. From that level, there will usually be something that you regret. Some will be large errors, like PFT, most hpoefully, will be inconsequential.
When you signed up for Gulfstream, you did so because you believed it to be the best course you could take to achieve your goals. It turned out to be a poor one, but you are doing OK. You might want to give the guys who are going to Gjets the same consideration you are asking for. I doubt that they are deliberately trying to "screw their pilot brothers" or whatever you said. They are probably making the choice because they believe that it is the best choice to achieve their goals. Remember that their goals may be similar to yours, and Home Depot doesn't meet currency requirements, unless you are in the FTY division.
As I said I admire your conviction. I don't agree with the way this carrier is being set up either. My friends at TSA didn't choose to go there. But personal attacks on the pilots are probably in most cases not deserved.
As you pointed out to Blackpilot, we are all still learning. What we learn tomorrow may make what we believe today seem foolish.
My .02

 

[J32driver]

A Ho-Jet pilot is a grown up. They should know better. Just ANOTHER disgrace to the piloting profession.

 

[BlackPilot628]

I am paying attention. We are ALL still learning. GJets is hiring relatively inexperienced people. Your experience level. I made many mistakes that I regret well after 3000 hours. My point is that there will always be a higher level that you will hopefully achieve. From that level, there will usually be something that you regret. Some will be large errors, like PFT, most hpoefully, will be inconsequential.
When you signed up for Gulfstream, you did so because you believed it to be the best course you could take to achieve your goals. It turned out to be a poor one, but you are doing OK. You might want to give the guys who are going to Gjets the same consideration you are asking for. I doubt that they are deliberately trying to "screw their pilot brothers" or whatever you said. They are probably making the choice because they believe that it is the best choice to achieve their goals. Remember that their goals may be similar to yours, and Home Depot doesn't meet currency requirements, unless you are in the FTY division.
As I said I admire your conviction. I don't agree with the way this carrier is being set up either. My friends at TSA didn't choose to go there. But personal attacks on the pilots are probably in most cases not deserved.
As you pointed out to Blackpilot, we are all still learning. What we learn tomorrow may make what we believe today seem foolish.
My .02

Well Said!

I know for a fact that I'm still learning and sometimes I type before I think when it comes to this board. I hope that over the next 35 years I can learn from the pilots mistakes that are older than and more experienced than I am. I'm not saying that Gjets is the best choice and that TSA pilots aren't getting one up the rear, I'm just not going to launch attacks at the Gjets pilots. Humans are allowed to make mistakes; if this is a mistake, they'll pay for that mistake and hopefully learn from it. It is not foolish to make a mistake, it's foolish not to learn from and correct the mistake that you made.

 

[PCL_128]

Kingairrick, the difference here is that this is not a mistake. Doing something when you don't know any better is a mistake. Doing something when you know it is wrong is just unethical and immoral. The difference is this: If I had someone tell me back in '99-'00 when I was looking for a flight school that GIA and PFT were damaging the profession, then I would not have gone. Someone is telling these pilots that what they are doing is screwing over the TSA pilots, and yet they don't care. Just look at the posts from Fuelflow and FreedomAList. They will defend to their last day what they did. I've heard the same story time and time again from the SCABs I worked with at GIA. "I had a family to feed. I wasn't about to go work outside of aviation just to help those guys with the contract." 15 years later there is no remorse with these guys. They didn't do what they did because they didn't know any better. They did what they did because they have no morals. They are only looking out for number one, screw everyone else. The BloJets pilots are of the same ilk.

 

[vclean]

In a few years it won't matter, cabotage will be here. You'll be competing for flying with foreign, government sponsored airlines that will make J. Ornstein look like Santa Claus.

 

[No.W.]

Your being way to hard on Go Jets

I think GO Jets is a great opportunity. I only wish I was in class right now. Believe me, I'm sending updated resumes all of the time.

 

[Kingairrick]

Ahh, but in their minds, it isn't wrong. Just because it's wrong to you doesn't make it wrong to them. Therefore, it still qualifies as a mistake. When you went to GIA, there was plenty of info out there that it was a scumbag operation. I have friends who went there, and don't regret it at all. So was it a mistake?
You justified your decision with your own logic at the time. Don't try to sell it that you didn't know it was a short cut.
Once again, be angry at the company, not the pilots.

 

[BoilerUP]

When you went to GIA, there was plenty of info out there that it was a scumbag operation. I have friends who went there, and don't regret it at all. So was it a mistake?

PCL has already said he regrets his decision, many many times. Just because he apologized doesn't make it right, but he takes responsibility for his decision and is working to prevent others from making the same decision.

Lets assume you are a 22 year old college graduate with a desire to be an airline pilot. Where do you look for information on flight schools? Other than your local airport, Flying Magazine, Flight Training, Private Pilot, AOPA Pilot (maybe). Have you EVER seen anything in those magazines about PFT? I recall one article in AOPA pilot about it a few years ago, but that was related to buying type ratings for corporate jobs. You do, however, see lots of shiny ads with some tool beside a Cessna 150 at zero hours, a 1900 at 250 hours, and a CRJ at 400 hours. If nobody told you any different, you'd say SWEET, that sounds like a good deal!

If nobody has ever told you it was a scumbag operation, how will you know? Even 5 years ago there wasn't much information on the internet about it, and unless you come from a union or business background, how do you know what a SCAB is and why they are bad? One of the greatest things these days is the CAPT is Crap website, to educate people about the ridiculous ERAU ab-initio program.

 

[PCL_128]

When you went to GIA, there was plenty of info out there that it was a scumbag operation.

Really? Where was this info? I wish I'd have known about it. The info I had came from the sources BoilerUP just mentioned: Flying mag, Plane and Pilot, Air Inc., and the brochures that the individual schools sent out. Most people don't have a clue about flightinfo.com until they're already in the business. Was flightinfo even around back in '99-'00?

You justified your decision with your own logic at the time. Don't try to sell it that you didn't know it was a short cut.

Honestly, I didn't have to justify anything in my mind at the time because I didn't view it as a shortcut. I got a bunch of different brochures from Comair Academy, GIA, ATA, among others. All of them advertised some sort of "First Officer Direct Program" or something of that sort. I picked GIA because it was the least expensive of them. GIA only cost me about $32k for everything including the 1900 training. Comair was going to charge me more than that just for my ratings. Without knowing what PFT was or how it was viewed in the industry, I just went with the most cost-effective school. You can believe whatever you want, but I certainly didn't think that I was "taking a shortcut" or "cutting in line" like Bobbysamd always used to say. To me, it just seemed like any other flight school. That's the case with most people that went to GIA.

 

[Black Water Dog]

Well, there is rumor (re: flightinfo), and there is fact (unknown to me, and probably you).

True, you and I don't have the whole story. Yet with 18 days until August 1st there are many readily observable facts:

- Press releases (still available online) stated Ho Jet would be flying revenue by August, with 10 jets flying by the end of the year.

- Recent news reports in the St. Louis paper that DOT is rejecting TSA Holdings appeals to keep financial statements secret. No DOT approval, ergo no operating certificate.

- No sightings of a proving runs. Not even a photo of a CRJ70 in the STL hanger.

- Cancellation of the second pilot training class, no one at TSA reporting a second pilot training class.

UAL's reaction is speculation at this point, but safe to say they are not thrilled.