G0JETS Blows

[FreedomAList]

That's pretty funny. Ho Jet was supposed to be revenue flying on August 1. Perhaps you would like to update us on the progress of the Bridgeton Bozos?
(For the unfamilar, Bridgeton MO is the corporate HQ for Trans States/Ho Jet.)

As deadlines slip towards '06 Big Daddy UAL must be really pi$$ed.

Calling SkyWest ....

Well, there is rumor (re: flightinfo), and there is fact (unknown to me, and probably you).

Per MESA ALPA at the time: Freedom wasn't going to happen, couldn't start up on time, couldn't survive a court challenge, couldn't get it's FAA cert, couldn't get competent pilots, and couldn't run an op on time . . . Uh, THEN IT DID. Oops.

I don't really care a whit about *************************s. But everything I see here is 99.9% identical to what went on at F8 years ago, and I suspect we're seeing history repeating itself. So my interest here is really just academic (and to stir up a little poop).

 

[PCL_128]

How can you possibly be so strongly union, yet so proud to vote for such an outspoken big business, anti-labor candidate?

The truth is, neither party is friendly to unionized labor. Need I remind you which party the President belonged to who signed NAFTA into law? Besides, there are many issues that I believe are much more important when selecting a President.

By the way, you won't find me "squirming" if you ask me about the list when I try to catch a ride. I'll gladly show you the list and we can even debate the whole thing right there in the flight deck if you wish.

 

[fuelflow]

There are plenty of airlines hiring that are not created for the sole purpose of circumventing the TSA pilots' CBA. If these guys want to get payed to fly airliners then they can apply to: Comair, ASA, PSA, ExpressJet, Mesaba, Pinnacle, Atlas, Kalitta, UPS, FedEx, Mesa, etc... Need I go on? In order to fly for a living they don't need to stab other pilots in the back. That is choice they are making.

************************* was not created to circumvent the TSA CBA. It was created to comply with APA's scope provisions. TSA's CBA had very poor scope and an MEC who had no will to deal with their management, so there's your outcome. As I've said before, GJ has professional well credentialed pilots working for them, mostly furloughed mainline pilots, in a unionized workplace with a good contract underway. GJ pilots are not lowballing anyone.

By the way, before I recieved my Private Certificate I saw those time-building ads in aviation magazines and knew then and there that that was selling out.

 

[DX Rick]

Indeed I do. I also carry the Freedumb list and now the BloJets list. I'm not the only one either. I know lots of guys that carry the Freedumb list.

I'm going to come up with a PFT list, and pass it along to everyone. What you did is worse than SCABBING.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm going to come up with a PFT list, and pass it along to everyone. What you did is worse than SCABBING.

Single most ignorant comment on Flightinfo. Ever.

 

[PCL_128]

************************* was not created to circumvent the TSA CBA. It was created to comply with APA's scope provisions.

What a load of crap. If TSA management just wanted to comply with APA scope, then all they had to do was staff the new airline with TSA pilots. A second airline certificate is all that is necessary to comply with the APA scope language. A new pilot seniority list is not. Instead of using their current pilots that helped bring in the revenue to pay for this new airline, they brought in a bunch of scumbags (that means you) to circumvent the TSA CBA. This isn't about APA scope at all, this is about good old fashioned union busting.

 

[flyer172r]

************************* was not created to circumvent the TSA CBA. It was created to comply with APA's scope provisions. TSA's CBA had very poor scope and an MEC who had no will to deal with their management, so there's your outcome. As I've said before, GJ has professional well credentialed pilots working for them, mostly furloughed mainline pilots, in a unionized workplace with a good contract underway. GJ pilots are not lowballing anyone.

TSA's contract is amendable next year. How can you possibly think that GJ won't be used against the TSA pilots when they're fighting to their working conditions. And if you have such great information on a good contract, why don't you share where you got it with us so we can all see what a wonderful place GJ will be.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm going to come up with a PFT list, and pass it along to everyone.

Really, that should be interesting. You gonna pass it out to all your dispatcher buddies? I'm sure every PFT'er out there is scared now that a dispatcher is going to deny him a jumpseat. Or maybe you can pass it out to all your buddies that you fly Cessnas and Pipers with. Dang, nothing worse than getting bumped off that last Cessna flight home because the "Captain" wouldn't let you on the jumpseat. [/sarcasm]

 

[fuelflow]

What a load of crap. If TSA management just wanted to comply with APA scope, then all they had to do was staff the new airline with TSA pilots. A second airline certificate is all that is necessary to comply with the APA scope language. A new pilot seniority list is not. Instead of using their current pilots that helped bring in the revenue to pay for this new airline, they brought in a bunch of scumbags (that means you) to circumvent the TSA CBA. This isn't about APA scope at all, this is about good old fashioned union busting.

Not true. AA has repeatedly told TSA that 50+ seat aircraft shall not be flown by TSA nor it's pilots, and that doing so would put TSA in violation of their codeshare agreement. APA has not given any commitments to either TSA or Chautauqua about whether or not it would sue if flying is done under under a common CBA. Chautauqua has a stronger position because their pilots have strong scope and effective union leadership.

I would blame APA's very effective scope clause and TSA's ineffective scope.

And I'll compare any GJ pilot to a PFT GIA alumni swinging gear at Pinnacle who decided when he had 250 hours to write a $20,000 check to keep from paying his dues in the industry.

 

[BoilerUP]

Not true. AA has repeatedly told TSA that 50+ seat aircraft shall not be flown by TSA nor it's pilots, and that doing so would put TSA in violation of their codeshare agreement. APA has not given any commitments to either TSA or Chautauqua about whether or not it would sue if flying is done under under a common CBA. Chautauqua has a stronger position because their pilots have strong scope and effective union leadership.

This does not make any sense. CHQ codeshares with American and operates a common CBA, but if TSA did the same thing it would violate the codeshare agreement? I declare shenanigans on this, because I fail to believe their agreements could be that much different. The scope of CHQ and TSA's contract should be irrelevent as to American and the APA giving a darn about who flies what airplanes. If I were the APA, I'd have far bigger concerns than Waterski pilots flying for 70 seaters for Blowjets...like a transparent alter-ego carrier being formed to circumvent their powerful scope, while screwing a fellow pilot group they should have no beef with.

And I'll compare any GJ pilot to a PFT GIA alumni swinging gear at Pinnacle who decided when he had 250 hours to write a $20,000 check to keep from paying his dues in the industry.

PCL has expressed multiple times his regret at making the decision he made, but yet he continues to be bashed on this board, including by you. I for one am glad you hold BLOWJETS pilots in such common high esteem.

 

[Kingairrick]

PCL has expressed multiple times his regret at making the decision he made, but yet he continues to be bashed on this board, including by you.

The problem with PCL128 is his lame "I was young and inexperienced @250 hours" argument. Now that he's a wise old 2900 hour FO, we should forgive him and take his opinions as the way it REALLY should be...What's he going to regret next year?

I admire his conviction, but there are many more experienced poeple here whose opinion he bashes. It comes across as a little arrogant.

 

[PCL_128]

It comes across as a little arrogant.

Just a little? Dang, I guess I need to kick it up a notch.

I went to GIA 5 years ago. Do you mean to tell me that you haven't done anything and then realized a few years later that it was a mistake? If so, then I'll happily admit that you're a better man than I.

 

[Kingairrick]

So, 5 years from now all these GJet guys have to do is admit it was a mistake and they are off the hook also. Your logic, not mine.

 

[PCL_128]

So, 5 years from now all these GJet guys have to do is admit it was a mistake and they are off the hook also. Your logic, not mine.

You're still not paying attention. As I've said many times, there is a big difference between a 250 hr newbie and a furloughed ALPA member. BloJets isn't hiring low-time pilots that don't know any better. These guys know how their actions are affecting the TSA pilots and they just don't care. People should be forgiven for honest mistakes. They shouldn't be let off the hook for intentionally screwing over their fellow pilots.

 

[vclean]

Stupid or not, PFTs like yourself lack credibility. It's ok to happily pay for a job and screw a fellow pilot who paid his/her dues, but you dam-n to hell anyone who even thinks of accepting a job not blessed by the almighty ALPA.

 

[Kingairrick]

I am paying attention. We are ALL still learning. GJets is hiring relatively inexperienced people. Your experience level. I made many mistakes that I regret well after 3000 hours. My point is that there will always be a higher level that you will hopefully achieve. From that level, there will usually be something that you regret. Some will be large errors, like PFT, most hpoefully, will be inconsequential.
When you signed up for Gulfstream, you did so because you believed it to be the best course you could take to achieve your goals. It turned out to be a poor one, but you are doing OK. You might want to give the guys who are going to Gjets the same consideration you are asking for. I doubt that they are deliberately trying to "screw their pilot brothers" or whatever you said. They are probably making the choice because they believe that it is the best choice to achieve their goals. Remember that their goals may be similar to yours, and Home Depot doesn't meet currency requirements, unless you are in the FTY division.
As I said I admire your conviction. I don't agree with the way this carrier is being set up either. My friends at TSA didn't choose to go there. But personal attacks on the pilots are probably in most cases not deserved.
As you pointed out to Blackpilot, we are all still learning. What we learn tomorrow may make what we believe today seem foolish.
My .02

 

[J32driver]

A Ho-Jet pilot is a grown up. They should know better. Just ANOTHER disgrace to the piloting profession.

 

[BlackPilot628]

I am paying attention. We are ALL still learning. GJets is hiring relatively inexperienced people. Your experience level. I made many mistakes that I regret well after 3000 hours. My point is that there will always be a higher level that you will hopefully achieve. From that level, there will usually be something that you regret. Some will be large errors, like PFT, most hpoefully, will be inconsequential.
When you signed up for Gulfstream, you did so because you believed it to be the best course you could take to achieve your goals. It turned out to be a poor one, but you are doing OK. You might want to give the guys who are going to Gjets the same consideration you are asking for. I doubt that they are deliberately trying to "screw their pilot brothers" or whatever you said. They are probably making the choice because they believe that it is the best choice to achieve their goals. Remember that their goals may be similar to yours, and Home Depot doesn't meet currency requirements, unless you are in the FTY division.
As I said I admire your conviction. I don't agree with the way this carrier is being set up either. My friends at TSA didn't choose to go there. But personal attacks on the pilots are probably in most cases not deserved.
As you pointed out to Blackpilot, we are all still learning. What we learn tomorrow may make what we believe today seem foolish.
My .02

Well Said!

I know for a fact that I'm still learning and sometimes I type before I think when it comes to this board. I hope that over the next 35 years I can learn from the pilots mistakes that are older than and more experienced than I am. I'm not saying that Gjets is the best choice and that TSA pilots aren't getting one up the rear, I'm just not going to launch attacks at the Gjets pilots. Humans are allowed to make mistakes; if this is a mistake, they'll pay for that mistake and hopefully learn from it. It is not foolish to make a mistake, it's foolish not to learn from and correct the mistake that you made.

 

[PCL_128]

Kingairrick, the difference here is that this is not a mistake. Doing something when you don't know any better is a mistake. Doing something when you know it is wrong is just unethical and immoral. The difference is this: If I had someone tell me back in '99-'00 when I was looking for a flight school that GIA and PFT were damaging the profession, then I would not have gone. Someone is telling these pilots that what they are doing is screwing over the TSA pilots, and yet they don't care. Just look at the posts from Fuelflow and FreedomAList. They will defend to their last day what they did. I've heard the same story time and time again from the SCABs I worked with at GIA. "I had a family to feed. I wasn't about to go work outside of aviation just to help those guys with the contract." 15 years later there is no remorse with these guys. They didn't do what they did because they didn't know any better. They did what they did because they have no morals. They are only looking out for number one, screw everyone else. The BloJets pilots are of the same ilk.

 

[vclean]

In a few years it won't matter, cabotage will be here. You'll be competing for flying with foreign, government sponsored airlines that will make J. Ornstein look like Santa Claus.