G0jet Pay Scale

[PCL_128]

Once again Redbook, I am compelled to respond to you mudslinging, insulting, lack of substance rhetoric. GJ was about a man with a dream to move on to the equipment of the future....70 and 90 seat jets. Its about a man trying to position himself and his company to be successful well into the 21st Century. It has nothing to do with circumventing any contract because circumventing contracts does not exist. A contract is just exactly as it states....A Contract. If the terms of the contract doesn't emcompass certain savvy business moves than a businessman would be foolish not to act in a manner to position himself and his company...IE Tran States Holdings....in a manner to benefit both such mentioned. I applaud his business genious.

Looks like Hulas has found his way to flightinfo.

 

[redbird]

rsspilot and H25B....I not only find your statements completely ridiculous, but I also have a difficult time reading them...LOL...they are soooo grammatically incorrect. How do you expect to have any credibility when you don't even know the difference between 'then' and 'than'...or how to spell genius, genious! Did you guys even make it through high school English??? I'm sure your resumes weren't much better. Man, *************************s REALLY IS scraping the bottom of the barrel. You guys just confirmed that one! THANKS!

What an embarrassment to your disgraceful company! You all deserve each other!

 

[punkpilot48]

GJ hasnt taken any TSA jobs, we havent done any American Connections flights and we never will.

If you did your homework about the company that that "man with a dream" you jizz over owns you would know that the majority of TSA flying is UAX flying.

 

[D'Angelo]

if the TSA pilots were being unreasonable management has every right to create a new certificate. It was intended to get around Americans scope clause. If the TSA pilots don't want to do it for a certain rate then they will find someone that will. Its not malicious its simply buisness. This entitlement syndrome has simply got to stop. Im not a fan myself of the state of the industry but its the way things are at this point in time.

 

[FlyHIToo]

FlyHIToo,
I your first sentence you assert that GJ is not a whipsaw carrier but your last sentence says the whipwaw is inevitable. Which is it? You now want to work together to relieve the problems you personally helped create? You guys are real pieces of work.

My point is simple. Whipsaw will occur. Whether in this holding company or outside this company. Do you really think that UAL has 5 UAX carriers for any other reason. DAL and ASA/ComAir have been whipsawed. CAL and CALExpress have. Mesaba and NWA. AMR has pitted AE against AA for years. We all need to look forward from here. For over a year now the TSA pilots on this website have been voicing their views. To no avail....

They have tried to scare people to not go to work at GJ cause it will "hurt their careers", but GJ pilots have been hired at CAL, AirTran, World Airways, and Southwest just to name some.

The vocal minority has tried to start jumpseat wars, but only caused ALPA to say, "...Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act,...The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource." ALPA Fast Read 2/17/06
Now GJ has Jumpseat agreements with nearly every 121 carrier in the US. I have not heard of any GJ pilot being denied by anyone.

I know many people at TSA feel betrayed. I think your MEC did betray you. The TSA MES could have ended this before it got to where it is today. They chose the road they chose, and now it is over. Hind sight is 20/20. Everyone has to move forward from this point in time and learn from the path your MEC took verus the path they could have.

Work with the IBT, if your MEC refuses to work with the IBT, get a MEC that will.

Redbook I do respect your post. You have been one of the few people on here that have not wavered in your opinions and have used mostly fact to back you up. Also, you have rarely resorted to name calling and fowl language to get your point across. That goes alot farther to get your point out than what most people do on this site.

This is a dead topic. The same issues has been beat around for well over a year.

Simply said move forward, move on...

 

[737 Pylt]

Simply said move forward, move on...

FlyHItoo:
I have heard other people in this industr speak as you do. You know what they are called.....
SCABS!
737

 

[h25b]

rsspilot and H25B....I not only find your statements completely ridiculous, but I also have a difficult time reading them...LOL...they are soooo grammatically incorrect. How do you expect to have any credibility when you don't even know the difference between 'then' and 'than'...or how to spell genius, genious! Did you guys even make it through high school English??? I'm sure your resumes weren't much better. Man, *************************s REALLY IS scraping the bottom of the barrel. You guys just confirmed that one! THANKS!

What an embarrassment to your disgraceful company! You all deserve each other!

Your an idiot.

I believe he meant to spell it, "you're an idiot." I guess that proves poor grammar has nothing to do with this debate ...

 

[Shrek]

"Now GJ has Jumpseat agreements with nearly every 121 carrier in the US........."



Could you list the airlines you DO have jumpseat reciprocal agreements with?.............

And about the IBT......I know they are throwing support behind you - they have to now......their reputation is on the line - they haven't met a guy like HK yet.

And those opinions that TSA pilots post on here over and over again will NEVER stop - when you know you are right you're right. It's called integrity ....look it up.

And the TSA MEC was neutral about the cocessionary contract extention. There was nothing left to give on the old contract. Well .....at least 75% thought so anyways.

Pretty resounding NO from the pilots themselves in my book. It was a horrible deal and they KNEW it. It was a non-starter in a lot of pilots minds and in my opinion - the start of the outright assault on ALPA on property.

Do you really think that a change of unions is going to change that mindset?

Quarter mil and ticking..........Arbitration is FINAL and BINDING.

 

[TSA ERJ]

FlyHIToo,
I'll give you credit for at least now recognizing that GJ was for formed to whipsaw. Though you may think the opposition against what you and your fellow GJ pilots and what you have helped create is just a vocal minority, I can assure you that there is a large percentage of pilots who feel the same way but choose not to voice their opinions here. I speak with them every day in airports all over and I don't bring it up, they do.

So a few have managed to escape GJ but the majority will spend their careers there. I will make sure I do whatever I can in my future to ensure that.

There is no "jumpseat war", just decisions by individual pilots not to allow undesireables on their planes. Jumpseat agreements are made by management not pilots, so implying that there is acceptance for your group out there by your list of agreements is incorrect. ALPA's statement was a legal disclaimer for liability reasons, nothing more, nothing less.

I would like to hear how you think TSA and GJ pilots should work together and to what end. Not broad strokes, but specifics about what you think the two groups should do.

Don't kid yourself, this topic is not dead and the GJ pilots will continue to be shown for what they are.

 

[Flybet3]

A very close friend of mine once told me this......
" Oh man I remember when I flew for eagle, boy did it suckman. I use to bring $800 dollars a month. I was living in a mobile home with 4 other pilots, but like my self and many other pilots you have to pay your dues before you can make it to the big boys. My advice to you is, build some time, make it to a regional, get ready to eat s**t for atleast 3 to 4 years and then put in an application. I'll try to recommend you."

This was said to me by an American Airlines Fokker 100 Captain pre-9/11 who was/is a good friend of mine.

This was your typical advice from airline guys back in the day, good advice? yes at that time it was, because in those days that how it was. Most of our fellow pilots "whored" them selves to make it to a legacy carrier.

Is it good advice now? Hell now! why? Because those days are over, now if you make it to a regional you have either plan to be there for many many many years, either make a career with the airline or build some time and start as an FO for another company.

The point of all of this is that you TSA guys complaining are as bad as gojets or anyother regional airline pilot. How is that so you ask? Well you took on a job with a sorry a$$ airline (TSA) making penuts in hope of a quick upgrade to build PIC time and them make it to the big boys. Same thing the Gojets guys did, will it come back and bite them in the a$$ at some point, I'm sure it will.
But you guys are mostly pissed of because you became the next american eagle, low pay, no upgrade insight airline. Which means either you suck it up and live with the fact that you are going to be an FO for a long time with a crappy company you chose to work for, or send an application elsewhere!
Like I've said it before, we are all whores in one way or another.

Wether is taking it up the a$$ with low wages for 70 seater, or taking it up the a$$ buying a 737 type to make it to a Major that 7 years ago was considered to be the lowest paying 737 operator.... so shut your traps and deal with it. We all brought this situation upon our selves when we decided to get a regional job as a "stepping stone" for $19-$22 and hour to make it to our "dream airline" job.

 

[temcgrew]

if the TSA pilots were being unreasonable management has every right to create a new certificate. It was intended to get around Americans scope clause. If the TSA pilots don't want to do it for a certain rate then they will find someone that will. Its not malicious its simply buisness. This entitlement syndrome has simply got to stop. Im not a fan myself of the state of the industry but its the way things are at this point in time.

Dude, you still do not get what happened.

1. TSH started G0JET
2. TSH hired pilots off the street for G0JET
3. TSH offered a contract to TSA

You talk as if they asked us to do it, we said no, so they went and found others to do it. This is not the case and stop making comments like that to lead people astray.

 

[temcgrew]

Originally Posted by rsspilot
Once again Redbook, I am compelled to respond to you mudslinging, insulting, lack of substance rhetoric. GJ was about a man with a dream to move on to the equipment of the future....70 and 90 seat jets. Its about a man trying to position himself and his company to be successful well into the 21st Century. It has nothing to do with circumventing any contract because circumventing contracts does not exist. A contract is just exactly as it states....A Contract. If the terms of the contract doesn't emcompass certain savvy business moves than a businessman would be foolish not to act in a manner to position himself and his company...IE Tran States Holdings....in a manner to benefit both such mentioned. I applaud his business genious.

Furloughing pilots and hiring at the same time, finding a way to make employees work while not getting payed (block only). Creating the worst morale in the buisness, and then coming on flightinfo to pat yourself on the back?

This is real genious.

My wife and kids thank you for the paycut.

This is not cutting edge 21st Century buisness practice. Not even Mesa or Chatauqua has done it this way and they are doing just fine. This is just criminal and it was taken out of a playbook written last century.

 

[xjhawk]

i have had some thoughts of bashing go jet, sure, i think the tok jobs from some other airline.....but thats what alpa is all about, is it not? Oh wait, they are not alpa....but let me give you some examples....

NWA specifically have in their new agreement to take planes away from Mesaba.......my job specifically....to send planes to their new regional Compass airlines. Oh by the way, most NWA pilots would not fly there, since all their furloughs will be recalled in a short couple years...so them adding in the contract to take jobs, they are A$$holes....but i still treat them well during jumpseat situations..

Contintal.....did they not strike, then lost the strike and started ops again with pilots who crossed the picket lines? who are the scabs at the company there? do you not let them jumpseat?

American. Did they not buyout all of TWA jobs and take their flying? oh, then furlough most of them? so are all american pilots scabs?

lets see where are more expamples? I am sure there are more....

I am not saying these people are all scabs, but just because a pilot group has routes which are flown, ALpa has historically not been too strict on who takes whos job....as long as thier hand is in the money......and looks like gojet should switch to ALPA, then all will be okay with them taking jobs at substandard rates. Personally, i would rather get retraining assistance from the state and unemployment than make what Mesaba is offereing.......Oh, and by the way....i am thinking of applying at Compass, cause wierd as it would seem, their pay scales are better than ours.....for all you ask unless its a avro captain with over 15 years......

 

[Flybet3]

I am not saying these people are all scabs, but just because a pilot group has routes which are flown, ALpa has historically not been too strict on who takes whos job....as long as thier hand is in the money......and looks like gojet should switch to ALPA, then all will be okay with them taking jobs at substandard rates. Personally, i would rather get retraining assistance from the state and unemployment than make what Mesaba is offereing.......Oh, and by the way....i am thinking of applying at Compass, cause wierd as it would seem, their pay scales are better than ours.....for all you ask unless its a avro captain with over 15 years......

Very well said my friend. just like I said, we are or have been scabs, whores at some point without maybe even knowing it. At the time we took low paying jet jobs we all had a different excuse, wether it was "I just want to build some time, I want to fly a jet, I want to fly for an airline, or I NEED SOMEWAY TO FEED MY FAMILY" we all brought this pretty much on our selves. You gotta do what you gotta do, like another guy here said....it seems like on TSA guys and some of us on this board know who the hell Gojets is.

About 95% of pilots I have mentioned gojets to dont even know they exsist!!!

 

[labbats]

They have tried to scare people to not go to work at GJ cause it will "hurt their careers", but GJ pilots have been hired at CAL, AirTran, World Airways, and Southwest just to name some.


Now GJ has Jumpseat agreements with nearly every 121 carrier in the US. I have not heard of any GJ pilot being denied by anyone.


This is a dead topic. The same issues has been beat around for well over a year.

Simply said move forward, move on...

None of that has happened, and the last part hopefully won't happen.

How can an airline less than a year old have people move on to those airlines?

What agreements do you have?

This topic hopefully won't die. I don't work for TSA, but I don't care for what GoJet pilots stand for, and hopefully neither will the hiring departments for major airlines.

 

[johndt]

Very well said my friend. just like I said, we are or have been scabs, whores at some point without maybe even knowing it.

Dude... he's bagging on -you-. I love it when d-bags come on here and follow up some a-hole's post about how pilots all suck and says, "Hell yeah, my great good buddy! We do suck! You're so right about me being a total a$$! I am a -complete- whore, dude... you're so right. It's what I've been trying to tell everyone all along."

If you think you're a whore (and I'm not denying that), then stop it, you freak. Whoring yourself is baaaad. This is something you should be ashamed of; it is not something you should be trumpeting in an a$$ backwards attempt to defend yourself.

"just like I said, we are or have been scabs" is -NOT- a defense.

If you're a scab -- Stop it!

 

[scarlet]

ALl you guys bashing Gojets--but you sure would sit right sit for one at Continental and all those other places wouldn't you---THOUGHT SO--SO SHUT UP---

Gojets pilots have voted a union in WHAT has SKYWEST done?? NOTHING

Skywest pilots are going to have to do our flying and taking our airplanes??

Explain that one please and get off Gojet pilots--they are not scabs...

 

[rsspilot]

ALl you guys bashing Gojets--but you sure would sit right sit for one at Continental and all those other places wouldn't you---THOUGHT SO--SO SHUT UP---

Gojets pilots have voted a union in WHAT has SKYWEST done?? NOTHING

Skywest pilots are going to have to do our flying and taking our airplanes??

Explain that one please and get off Gojet pilots--they are not scabs...

I respect skywest for what they have done....they provide a great working environment, competing wages, and an understanding that happy pilots will make for a more successful airline. Its too bad that all the airlines dont operate on this business model. It would bring respect back to the industry. What has alpa done for anyone lately except create hatred between pilots and management. This is no way to run a successful airline. We should just dump all unions and start over.

 

[Shrek]

Anybody ELSE need some G0 Jet KOOL-AID?!!!

 

[rsspilot]

Anybody ELSE need some G0 Jet KOOL-AID?!!!

Since you and redbook have nothing to do but throw mud why even bother reading my posts?????