G0-Jet Pay Scales

[Reebo]

.. I'm good friends with the ex-Eagle guy at GJ's and I would love for one of you guys to personally approach him with about half of the moral character attacks that those on this board love to throw around safely hidden behind the cloak of internet anonymity...

What's he going to do, Beat me up? Give me a break.

 

[Reebo]

I've known him for 10 years, he's an outstanding pilot, human being, husband, father, and friend...

In your opinion. I guess you really are a bad judge of character.

 

[h25b]

In your opinion. I guess you really are a bad judge of character.

If I were like yourself and let a union guide my decision making skills along with my career you could have a point, but unfortunately for you there's a bit more to life than that. Good luck, your union has done a fantastic job so far.

 

[jetfo]

Never called anybody a scab there, skippy - but please, keep putting words in my mouth. I'd have refuted this BS quicker had the email notifications been working properly...


Lots of people had families & obligations but didn't cross picket lines at Continental & Eastern & Comair. Lots of people had obligations but didn't join Freedom A. And lots of people with obligations at TSA and elsewhere didn't want to undermind the TSA pilot group in their negotiations. There are a few that did, because they were "looking out for themselves, because the union could care less about your life." Well that may be...but I'll sleep well knowing I didn't stab anybody in the back on my proverbial 'way to the top'

Rant off.

Paul Lucas
Class of 2005

No offense Paul, though you will likely take offense anyway. Apparently, you are just starting out in this industry and have invested less that a year as a probationary FO at TSA.

In the above quote you say you haven't called anyone a scab, but in the following paragraph you compare your dispute with real scabs crossing picket lines during the Eastern, Continental and Comair strikes.

Let me take a wild guess that you got the gig at TSA with less than 500 hours and now with less than a year at TSA and still less than 1000 hours you are spouting off about your long hard work at TSA.

Come on man, you have got to get over it. People get screwed in this business every day and this will not be your last time. And, it doesn't remotely compare to those of us who have experienced a lot worse. If you stay in this industry you will experience a lot worse too and you'll probably laugh at how upset you got over this.

Like it or not, fair or not, management at TSA has done what it has done and that will not change regardless how mad you guys get. Hopefully, one day you'll move on to mainline somewhere, as will the guys at GJ and you'll have to fly with these guys. Animosity will get you nowhere in this business and continuing your angry conflict will do nothing for you.

TSA holdings has managed to start another airline and they will continue to hire pilots, just like Compass, Republic and Mesa among others taking many former mainline pilot jobs, as have you at TSA. Is it fair? No, but I'll get over it.

When you accepted your present job, you took it because it was available and it was offered. You didn't cross a picket line, but you did take flying that was formerly mainline flying. The guys that are taking jobs at GJ are not crossing a picket line, they take a job that is available and offered and if they didn't take it someone else would.

That's how they get pilots at Mesa to fly CRJ900's with a minimum of 8 days off, for $21/hour, and per diem of $1.22.

It is sad, but a fact of life. I just met one of their CRJ900 FO's doing IOE, less than 300 hours TT, couldn't hardly talk on the radio much less manage the automation. Go figure. I am not in favor of it, but I can't change it. If it were up to me, no one would be permitted to fly for a 121 carrier unless they at least had their ATP. That would slow down the race to the bottom.

 

[h25b]

Never called anybody a scab there, skippy - but please, keep putting words in my mouth. I'd have refuted this BS quicker had the email notifications been working properly...


I'm glad you and this guy are good friends, that you've known him for 10 years and that he is an outstanding human being. That may all be true, but the fact remains when he left Eagle for GJ (for the PIC time and for the payraise) he climbed on the backs of every TSA pilot who earned that flying through their sacrifices and hard work for Hulas.

What about those TSA FOs who are also good husbands, fathers and friends who could have used the benefits of growth via CR7s? Can you friend look those people in the eye and tell them he didn't do anything immoral or unethical? Can you? Or will you keep up this holier-than-thou "when you get married and start a family and mature you will understand" attitude? Because I'm getting married in 6 weeks, am looking at buying a house on probationary RJ pay while paying down student loans, my fiance was just diagnosed with Type I diabetes and can no longer do ATC and I lost my ANG pilot slot two weeks ago because of high pressure in my eyes despite perfect vision. Please, don't lecture ME about the difficulties of "life" - I'm already there.

I'm about sick and farking tired of your lame-ass "I graduated ten years ago and you don't know anything about the industry" line of BS when it comes to me and any other recent Purdue alum. It doesn't take somebody being in this industry for a decade to realize working for GJ is not a good thing to do. Lots of people had families & obligations but didn't cross picket lines at Continental & Eastern & Comair. Lots of people had obligations but didn't join Freedom A. And lots of people with obligations at TSA and elsewhere didn't want to undermind the TSA pilot group in their negotiations. There are a few that did, because they were "looking out for themselves, because the union could care less about your life." Well that may be...but I'll sleep well knowing I didn't stab anybody in the back on my proverbial 'way to the top'

Rant off.

Paul Lucas
Class of 2005

Great Paul... You've been at Air Wisky and on the line all of about 3 weeks, maybe a couple months ??? Perfect, keep telling us all how the world works.. Your help is greatly appreciated...

And those "difficulties" you're currently experiencing ? It's just the beginning buddy, it's doesn't get any easier. So you're fresh from college and going straight in to the right seat of an RJ with maybe over 1000 TT ? Wow, what career hardship.

Please spare me from the others didn't cross picket lines at XYZ Airlines BS. Here's another newflash junior, THERE'S NO PICKET LINE AT TSA. For crying out loud there's not even a strike. And one other important detail your 3 weeks of line experience escapes you. You don't earn additional aircraft, you negotiate it. This clearly didn't happen. As for looking anyone in the eye, don't even start. Tell you what, if you're in to GSO sometime send me a PM and I'll happily buy you a beer, look you in the eye, and explain to you that I and no one else could give a $hit.

Your little rant is frankly a disgrace to the rest of us Purdue guys out there that quietly go out in to the real world and make our way without whining like brats earning a reputation as professionals. Makes me wonder what people like you will do when the days of coming right out of college and straight in to an RJ come to an end (and believe me, it will...).

Never called anybody a scab there, skippy - but please, keep putting words in my mouth.

Lots of people had families & obligations but didn't cross picket lines at Continental & Eastern & Comair.

I don't think I could fit any words in your mouth, you're too busy talking out of both sides of it... The Purdue Beechjet program really made a headcase out of you, one FlightSafety SIC Initial and the world just suddenly makes so much sense to you. Must be nice.

 

[FlyHIToo]

That may all be true, but the fact remains when he left Eagle for GJ (for the PIC time and for the payraise) he climbed on the backs of every TSA pilot who earned that flying through their sacrifices and hard work for Hulas.

My guess is that no TSA pilot had any problem "climbing on the backs of every" AE pilot "who earned that flying through their sacrifices and hard work for" AMR. TSA pilots jumped right into those 10 airplanes of Eagle's while AE furloughed and TSA hired.

What about those TSA FOs who are also good husbands, fathers and friends who could have used the benefits of growth via CR7s? Can you friend look those people in the eye and tell them he didn't do anything immoral or unethical? Can you?

I also doubt that those "good husbands, fathers and friends" who are TSA pilots will refuse to fly those 69 EMB's that COEX currently flies if TSA is able to UNDER CUT the COEX flying and get that flying.

Will you TSA pilots "be able to look those COEX pilots in the eye and tell them you didn't do anything wrong" by not recalling the TSA MEC and not letting Dario extend a decade old, below par contract, that now has given Hulas the ability to UNDER CUT the COEX pilots?

If GJ is truly an Alter-Ego and is causing so much detriment to the industry... Why has ALPA National been totally silent on the issue since last summer? Maybe, because ALPA National knows that TSA MEC screwed up. Maybe, because ALPA knows that then NBM single carrier ruling has ended the question. Maybe, because ALPA knows that GJ is not an Alter-Ego.

 

[FlyBunny]

Unions have not served this country well.

Look at our automobile industry…barely breathing because of unions. And, frankly…why are we so ‘for’ the unions…what have they done for the airlines….just look at what’s going on at NWA, Continental, UAL, etc. Why do we believe that ‘unions’ are good. Time has come for unions to simply fade away…2% dues to ALPA…for what? Obviously ALPA and other unions would like to brainwash you and tell that what you have is because of them…but…is it really.

Just look at XJ…Comair…all that talk about contracts…and still not any different than other non-union airlines…in my orientation this ALPA dude was telling us stories that I couldn’t find any truth to…but they got the 2% of pilots paycheck for sure.

Look at how many are standing in line to work for non-union airlines. Just look in to labor law and labor relations and you’d begin to find out that unions are simply waste of employee’s time and money.

If SkyWest can run without a union…so can rest of the airlines. For Go Jet…I say to UND students not to listen to you lot and get that job. Stand for what you believe and don’t be intimidated by people like you who are out there to ‘blackmail’ those who want to fly…nothing wrong at all to fly for *************************…and yes if it gets you an airline flying job, and that’s been your goal, then go for it.

And those of you against airlines like *************************…eventually time will come for you to make mends with the ‘times’ and move on. Move on people…simply move on. Live and let live.

 

[Palmtree Pilot]

Unions have not served this country well.

Look at our automobile industry…barely breathing because of unions. And, frankly…why are we so ‘for’ the unions…what have they done for the airlines….just look at what’s going on at NWA, Continental, UAL, etc. Why do we believe that ‘unions’ are good. Time has come for unions to simply fade away…2% dues to ALPA…for what? Obviously ALPA and other unions would like to brainwash you and tell that what you have is because of them…but…is it really.

Just look at XJ…Comair…all that talk about contracts…and still not any different than other non-union airlines…in my orientation this ALPA dude was telling us stories that I couldn’t find any truth to…but they got the 2% of pilots paycheck for sure.

Look at how many are standing in line to work for non-union airlines. Just look in to labor law and labor relations and you’d begin to find out that unions are simply waste of employee’s time and money.

If SkyWest can run without a union…so can rest of the airlines. For Go Jet…I say to UND students not to listen to you lot and get that job. Stand for what you believe and don’t be intimidated by people like you who are out there to ‘blackmail’ those who want to fly…nothing wrong at all to fly for *************************…and yes if it gets you an airline flying job, and that’s been your goal, then go for it.

And those of you against airlines like *************************…eventually time will come for you to make mends with the ‘times’ and move on. Move on people…simply move on. Live and let live.

Looks like the future will get brighter!!!!!!!!

Holy Sh!t.

PtP

 

[Steveair]

Unions have not served this country well.

Look at our automobile industry…barely breathing because of unions. And, frankly…why are we so ‘for’ the unions…what have they done for the airlines….just look at what’s going on at NWA, Continental, UAL, etc. Why do we believe that ‘unions’ are good. Time has come for unions to simply fade away…2% dues to ALPA…for what? Obviously ALPA and other unions would like to brainwash you and tell that what you have is because of them…but…is it really.

Just look at XJ…Comair…all that talk about contracts…and still not any different than other non-union airlines…in my orientation this ALPA dude was telling us stories that I couldn’t find any truth to…but they got the 2% of pilots paycheck for sure.

Look at how many are standing in line to work for non-union airlines. Just look in to labor law and labor relations and you’d begin to find out that unions are simply waste of employee’s time and money.

If SkyWest can run without a union…so can rest of the airlines. For Go Jet…I say to UND students not to listen to you lot and get that job. Stand for what you believe and don’t be intimidated by people like you who are out there to ‘blackmail’ those who want to fly…nothing wrong at all to fly for *************************…and yes if it gets you an airline flying job, and that’s been your goal, then go for it.

And those of you against airlines like *************************…eventually time will come for you to make mends with the ‘times’ and move on. Move on people…simply move on. Live and let live.

1200 hours... not an airline pilot. You have a basis for your opinion based on what? Couldn't agree with you more about the unions though!

 

[jetfo]

Great Paul... You've been at Air Wisky and on the line all of about 3 weeks, maybe a couple months ??? Perfect, keep telling us all how the world works.. Your help is greatly appreciated...

Sorry Paul, I stand corrected, you're a brand new Air Whiskey FO and don't even have a dog in this fight. At least we can rely on the vast amount of experience speaking on this board, particularly this thread!

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Your wrong on many counts......we just finished a class of twenty...have a class of 24 now... a class of 24 start at the end of april and interviewing for a class of 20 plus to start mid may.....and yes....there is one University of Purdue and several job fair guys in the latest graduating class but make whatever false rumors and lies you want to....not going hurt us at all. One other point....it is hilarious when someone claims to have reliable sources about what is going on with our company and then they end with "has anyone else heard this?" If your sources where so reliable why would you need to get it comfirmed...obviously just trying to once again try a different angle to make a new airline with a great future look bad....nice try.

And he is proud to announce that the combined flight experience of all the new hires could possibly qualify for 135mins. Minus the x/c and night of course.

 

[jetfo]

My guess is that no TSA pilot had any problem "climbing on the backs of every" AE pilot "who earned that flying through their sacrifices and hard work for" AMR. TSA pilots jumped right into those 10 airplanes of Eagle's while AE furloughed and TSA hired.



I also doubt that those "good husbands, fathers and friends" who are TSA pilots will refuse to fly those 69 EMB's that COEX currently flies if TSA is able to UNDER CUT the COEX flying and get that flying.

Will you TSA pilots "be able to look those COEX pilots in the eye and tell them you didn't do anything wrong" by not recalling the TSA MEC and not letting Dario extend a decade old, below par contract, that now has given Hulas the ability to UNDER CUT the COEX pilots?

If GJ is truly an Alter-Ego and is causing so much detriment to the industry... Why has ALPA National been totally silent on the issue since last summer? Maybe, because ALPA National knows that TSA MEC screwed up. Maybe, because ALPA knows that then NBM single carrier ruling has ended the question. Maybe, because ALPA knows that GJ is not an Alter-Ego.

Finally, someone with the facts!

 

[redbook]

If GJ is truly an Alter-Ego and is causing so much detriment to the industry... Why has ALPA National been totally silent on the issue since last summer? Maybe, because ALPA National knows that TSA MEC screwed up. Maybe, because ALPA knows that then NBM single carrier ruling has ended the question. Maybe, because ALPA knows that GJ is not an Alter-Ego.

You keep lying, I keep responding. You were an alter ego airline at inception, and you still are. The rest of the industry isn't fooled despite you and h25b and few other pathetic types desperate attempts at confusing the issue.

ALPA President to Trans States Management: We'll Cooperate, but We're Not Backing Down
ST LOUIS, MO - The head of the union that represents pilots at St. Louis-based Trans States Airlines today told pilots at a rally at Lambert Airport that the union is taking a carrot-and-stick approach to resolving labor issues at the airline.
"I have come here today to personally issue a public challenge to your management to alter the course that they have taken in dealing with their pilots," said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, in remarks prepared for the rally.
"I have come to challenge them to work cooperatively with our union to help build this airline for the future. And I have come to offer to help promote new business opportunities for this airline and new job opportunities for its ALPA pilots. I am convinced that, together, we can build Trans States into a strong, solid company for decades to come," Woerth said.
"I have also come here to draw public attention to the fact that, sadly, our efforts to discuss the issues before us in cooperation with the company have, to date, met with little to no success. Using only the most tenuous thread of justification, Trans States management has sought to create an alter-ego carrier that they intend to staff with pilots not sheltered by an ALPA-bargained contract," he said.
"In response to this tactic, we have been forced to file a grievance concerning this alter-ego carrier, because management has made it clear that ************************* exists solely to evade ALPA and the TSA-ALPA agreement. The clearest proof? Management's premature and illegal attempt to install a separate union before ************************* employs any pilots or begins operations. While management's public claim that a contractual restriction makes it impossible to extend the ALPA contract to larger jets, I assure you that we can readily overcome this very common obstacle," Woerth said

 

[redbook]

Finally, someone with the facts!

I provide you the facts above. Your welcome.

 

[redbook]

well g0jet scumbags? tell me black is white and white is black, or try and draw in some other unrelated issue.

 

[BoilerUP]

You've been at Air Wisky and on the line all of about 3 weeks, maybe a couple months ??? Perfect, keep telling us all how the world works.. Your help is greatly appreciated...

The world is greater than a cockpit. If you of all people can't figure that out...

And those "difficulties" you're currently experiencing ? It's just the beginning buddy, it's doesn't get any easier. So you're fresh from college and going straight in to the right seat of an RJ with maybe over 1000 TT ? Wow, what career hardship.

I never asked for your sympathy and frankly don't want it. The point (which you obviously missed) is that everybody has problems, but most don't use them as excuses for stabbing others in the back.

Please spare me from the others didn't cross picket lines at XYZ Airlines BS. Here's another newflash junior, THERE'S NO PICKET LINE AT TSA. For crying out loud there's not even a strike. And one other important detail your 3 weeks of line experience escapes you. You don't earn additional aircraft, you negotiate it. This clearly didn't happen. As for looking anyone in the eye, don't even start. Tell you what, if you're in to GSO sometime send me a PM and I'll happily buy you a beer, look you in the eye, and explain to you that I and no one else could give a $hit.

Once again, I never said there was a strike or a picket line at TSA. Where do you dream this stuff up? You, for all your vast knowledge and understanding, must realize the point (that you once again obviously missed) is that just like everybody has problems, everybody has obligations and a family. While its true everyone has to look out for themselves, TSA ALPA *was* negotiating for the GJ flying but turned down a terrible offer from Hulas. Every single current and future GJ pilot directly weakened the negotiating power of TSA pilots, and that is a fact you cannot deny.

Your little rant is frankly a disgrace to the rest of us Purdue guys out there that quietly go out in to the real world and make our way without whining like brats earning a reputation as professionals. Makes me wonder what people like you will do when the days of coming right out of college and straight in to an RJ come to an end (and believe me, it will...).

Who is whining? Certaninly not me. You sound like the "Purdue pilot" stereotype from the mid 90s people like myself have been fighting against for years now - the know-everything condescending jackass who is always right. I've never claimed I know everything and have often said "prove me wrong", but you never have. You never responded months ago when I compared this to the whining corporate pilots do about 135 and frax pilots dragging down their salaries. You've said multiple times you are out of 121 aviation, so quit spending your time on the Regionals board.

I've busted my ass to get where I am, but I've also been very lucky and very blessed with the opportunities I've had. I never worked for TSA and wasn't a 500/25 newhire (though I have nothing against anybody who was). You never challenged the gist of my argument but instead defaulted to your usual personal attacks. I cannot say I'm suprised, as you've not once argued based on logic on this board.

h25b, I'll make this real simple for you and ask you the question again:
What about those TSA FOs who are also good husbands, fathers and friends who could have used the benefits of growth via CR7s? Can you friend look those people in the eye and tell them he didn't do anything immoral or unethical? Can you?

 

[h25b]

You keep lying, I keep responding. You were an alter ego airline at inception, and you still are. The rest of the industry isn't fooled despite you and h25b and few other pathetic types desperate attempts at confusing the issue.

ALPA President to Trans States Management: We'll Cooperate, but We're Not Backing Down
ST LOUIS, MO - The head of the union that represents pilots at St. Louis-based Trans States Airlines today told pilots at a rally at Lambert Airport that the union is taking a carrot-and-stick approach to resolving labor issues at the airline.
"I have come here today to personally issue a public challenge to your management to alter the course that they have taken in dealing with their pilots," said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, in remarks prepared for the rally.
"I have come to challenge them to work cooperatively with our union to help build this airline for the future. And I have come to offer to help promote new business opportunities for this airline and new job opportunities for its ALPA pilots. I am convinced that, together, we can build Trans States into a strong, solid company for decades to come," Woerth said.
"I have also come here to draw public attention to the fact that, sadly, our efforts to discuss the issues before us in cooperation with the company have, to date, met with little to no success. Using only the most tenuous thread of justification, Trans States management has sought to create an alter-ego carrier that they intend to staff with pilots not sheltered by an ALPA-bargained contract," he said.
"In response to this tactic, we have been forced to file a grievance concerning this alter-ego carrier, because management has made it clear that ************************* exists solely to evade ALPA and the TSA-ALPA agreement. The clearest proof? Management's premature and illegal attempt to install a separate union before ************************* employs any pilots or begins operations. While management's public claim that a contractual restriction makes it impossible to extend the ALPA contract to larger jets, I assure you that we can readily overcome this very common obstacle," Woerth said

And this bold move by Worthless was promptly shot out of the sky by the NMB Ruling and the sounds of crickets chirping has been all that's been heard from ALPA National ever since. Game, set, match... You can pretty much count ALPA national out of this battle from here on out.

 

[redbook]

And this bold move by Worthless was promptly shot out of the sky by the NMB Ruling and the sounds of crickets chirping has been all that's been heard from ALPA National ever since. Game, set, match... You can pretty much count ALPA national out of this battle from here on out.

and that is all a little scumbag like you needs. The battle continues.

 

[h25b]

h25b, I'll make this real simple for you and ask you the question again:
What about those TSA FOs who are also good husbands, fathers and friends who could have used the benefits of growth via CR7s? Can you friend look those people in the eye and tell them he didn't do anything immoral or unethical? Can you?

Yep, as a matter of fact he comes and gos to work with no difficulty whatsoever, ID happily on display.... As for me, like I said drop me a line sometime and I'll buy you that beer. I offered this to one of the other TSA guys here months ago and oddly he never took me up on it.

 

[rtmcfi]

GJ pukes and those that are GJ pukes, but claim not to be......

All of your spin is nothing but putting lipstick on a pig. Bathe in the shame you have brought upon yourselves. Try as you might, you wont be able to convince those who have a moral compass. You are a pathetic lot, and I hope your children find real role models in life. It's obvious none of you were so fortunate.

 

[h25b]

and that is all a little scumbag like you needs. The battle continues.

That's all you've got ??? Face it, your little post about ALPA National proves nothing other than it was merely Worthless glad handing the TSA group. BFD ?? Ever since the NMB ruling what exactly has national done for your cause ? Zip, nada, nothing... It's over...

 

[h25b]

You never responded months ago when I compared this to the whining corporate pilots do about 135 and frax pilots dragging down their salaries. You've said multiple times you are out of 121 aviation, so quit spending your time on the Regionals board.

What, huh ??? When was this ? You need to take me up on the beer offer so we can straighten this out ... I don't remember any GJ pilot using any excuses on why they went to work there. They're just going to work. You're the one bringing your personal problems in to this mess. Like I said, nobody cares...

Thanks for all the career advice, has the lamination on your Air Wisky ID even cooled yet ??? Those things need to cool off before you wear them you know...

 

[redbook]

That's all you've got ??? Face it, your little post about ALPA National proves nothing other than it was merely Worthless glad handing the TSA group. BFD ?? Ever since the NMB ruling what exactly has national done for your cause ? Zip, nada, nothing... It's over...

G0jet is an alter ego airline....alll that is over is g0jet pilot careers. But hey if it is over, why do you keep posting?

Two post ago you state that anyone who lets a union decide their actions is wrong, but now you say since National is silent its "over".

Sorry, wrong again. You sound desperate.

 

[h25b]

G0jet is an alter ego airline....alll that is over is g0jet pilot careers. But hey if it is over, why do you keep posting?

Two post ago you state that anyone who lets a union decide their actions is wrong, but now you say since National is silent its "over".

Sorry, wrong again. You sound desperate.

In case you haven't noticed, the NMB is the final authority on these types of disputes. They clearly ruled that GJ's is not an alter ego. Your union is guiding your anti-logic. It's how the system, of which your union is a part of, works.. This isn't desperation, it's a fact.

 

[BoilerUP]

More personal attacks from h25b with no substance.

You've said twice you'd buy me a beer and tell me to my face you don't give a sh!t about me and twice you've failed to tell us that you could look a TSA FO in the eye and tell him a GJ pilot didn't do anything immoral or unethical in taking that job. Was the question really that difficult, or you simply forgot to answer?

Thanks but no thanks to your gracious offer; I don't want your beer and I really don't care to meet you. Unlike some on this board, I don't take people insulting my friends or my career progression personally. Good luck with the kid(s) - and I mean that.

 

[h25b]

More personal attacks from h25b with no substance.

You've said twice you'd buy me a beer and tell me to my face you don't give a sh!t about me and twice you've failed to tell us that you could look a TSA FO in the eye and tell him a GJ pilot didn't do anything immoral or unethical in taking that job. Was the question really that difficult, or you simply forgot to answer?

Now, now Paul,

You can't read either... ???... This I think will be the third time I have gladly offered to meet you or any TSA pilot over a beer to politely discuss (eye to eye if you insist) why I think this is all a bunch of hog wash. Like I said, a few months ago I extended this offer to someone on this board and so far haven't ever heard back...

As for personal attacks, again, if you slowly read (left to right, top to bottom, in sequencial order through the pages of this thread) you'll find that you were the one starting off with the personal attacks (also with no substance) against me.

Keep fighting the good fight, "Skippy" ... :beer: You do, on a regular basis, slam and insult a friend of mine. I don't take it personally either, you just haven't been around long enough to know any better.

 

[Philerup]

If you are considering going to Go-jets I would encourage you to do it. I have been reading this post and I can't not comment. All you people at TSA threatining newbies, I mean really. So what if some kid fresh out of school goes to Go-Jets. If it was such a big deal you should have walked out and shut the muther down. But instead you want to threaten the new guys and try to make them do the job you were too impotent to do. And I know about illegal work actions, but tell that to the bus drivers in NYC. Why should some kid give up a chance at a rapid upgrade just to fight your fight? What do they get out of it?

To the new guys: Don't let these people scare you. I have been in this industry for 6 years now and have played by the rules. Built 1500 hours over three years, flew 135 freight for a year, and now at my current job in the right seat of a turbo-prop. Meanwhile, I have seen people who PFT and what not advance on up in their careers. Don't screw yourselves for some stupid idealistic cause that has nothing to do with you. Look out for number 1 first, because none of these guys are going to look out for you. As far as the threats about your career being over if you go to Go-Jets. Well in case you don't know this career pretty much sucks anyway. Go to Go-Jets, get your 1000 PIC quickly, and give it a shot. If you never get hired anywhere else and get blackballed out of the industry, it may be a blessing in disguise.

 

[FlyHIToo]

ALPA President to Trans States Management: We'll Cooperate, but We're Not Backing Down
ST LOUIS, MO - The head of the union that represents pilots at St. Louis-based Trans States Airlines today told pilots at a rally at Lambert Airport that the union is taking a carrot-and-stick approach to resolving labor issues at the airline.
"I have come here today to personally issue a public challenge to your management to alter the course that they have taken in dealing with their pilots," said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, in remarks prepared for the rally.
"I have come to challenge them to work cooperatively with our union to help build this airline for the future. And I have come to offer to help promote new business opportunities for this airline and new job opportunities for its ALPA pilots. I am convinced that, together, we can build Trans States into a strong, solid company for decades to come," Woerth said.
"I have also come here to draw public attention to the fact that, sadly, our efforts to discuss the issues before us in cooperation with the company have, to date, met with little to no success. Using only the most tenuous thread of justification, Trans States management has sought to create an alter-ego carrier that they intend to staff with pilots not sheltered by an ALPA-bargained contract," he said.
"In response to this tactic, we have been forced to file a grievance concerning this alter-ego carrier, because management has made it clear that ************************* exists solely to evade ALPA and the TSA-ALPA agreement. The clearest proof? Management's premature and illegal attempt to install a separate union before ************************* employs any pilots or begins operations. While management's public claim that a contractual restriction makes it impossible to extend the ALPA contract to larger jets, I assure you that we can readily overcome this very common obstacle," Woerth said

Redbook....
Thanks for proving my point. This post you have posted above is the last time ALPA spoke on this subject. May 2005 nearly 1 whole year ago.

Ever since the TSA pilots voted down the flying...and the NMB researched the two companies and issued their ruling, ALPA has not done anything. Why? Because they know there is no fight. They know there is no Alter-Ego. They even told the TSA pilots that a single carrier filing was a long shot before the vote and that the LOA they voted down was most likely the only way to get the GJ flying. ALPA National knows there is no point to argue anymore. GJ will be a seperate carrier under the IBT and TSA will be under ALPA.

 

[h25b]

Redbook....
Thanks for proving my point. This post you have posted above is the last time ALPA spoke on this subject. May 2005 nearly 1 whole year ago.

You're correct, here's the link from ALPA's website.

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=1499&ModuleId=506&TabId=93

Gee, we should all shutter at ALPA's fierce opposition to this dire situation...

Nearly one year ago, dated May 10, 2005...

 

[KingKong2]

This is a story of courage and diligence. The courage to take a stand, and the diligence to see it through.There was once a company in the regional airline industry that commanded the seventh largest US domestic airline carrier position. That company started in the early eighties and went through several name transitions to end up with Trans States Airlines (TSA) as it is known today. The airline made its mark in the industry as a company that code shared, or provided feeder service, with major airlines to fill a niche that seemed to be a growing trend by the majors in an attempt to defray the costs of an inefficient and outdated hub and spoke business model. An additional benefit to the major airlines by code sharing with smaller carriers was the more cost effective smaller jets that could be scheduled more frequently, thereby allowing more travelers access to more cities at a fraction of the cost that it took to fly larger airplanes fewer times a day.

Even labor was cheaper. In this industry you get "paid for what you push", and the regional carriers were pushing nothing larger than fifty seaters instead of the two hundred and fifty seaters that the majors still had in inventory. Competition for code share agreements became tighter and wages for pilots and crew began to decline as labor is commonly the only mallable factor that allows a regional carrier to compete with other regional carriers in the same class.

TSA, a private company owned by a single individual, had been successful through its resourcefulness in tough times to capture opportunity that larger public companies found difficult to move on because of the very nature of their corporate structure. Uninhibited by investors or shareholders, TSA could make decisions quickly to take advantage of new market opportunities before other companies could make up their mind. The strategy worked, but the market was about to change to follow a new trend that TSA, through all of its resourcefulness, would not legally be able to partake. Researching its code share agreements with other airlines, particularly American, TSA was limited by Union clauses that limited it to flying jet aircraft to fifty seats or less. This limitation allowed TSA to help American grow its American Connection business model to a substantial size, which in turn brought TSA into the jet market almost doubling its aircraft inventory. What the industry didn't know was that this market would saturate very quickly, forcing the majors to start looking at larger aircraft once again. The fifty seat jets were just not large enough nor profitable enough to meet industry demand.

An overhaul of the major airlines existing aircraft fleet was simply too expensive, especially with the profit losses from poor business models and looming bankruptcies that plagued the industry. If that were possible, the majors would not need the regionals. New code share agreements for larger equipment, primarily the seventy to one hundred seat range, would be an immediate answer to the problem. United Airlines was among the first to announce that it would code share all of its domestic route structure to the regionals. Most regional airlines were making money and had the capital to invest in new aircraft, but were locked out by scope clauses in their contracts and could not accept these new opportunities to fly larger aircraft in code share agreements with the majors. TSA was among them.

Imagine the feeling of surviving decades just to be shut out at the very moment it seemed the market was finally opening up to the underdogs. There had to be a way. Something had to change.

It was then that the idea to start a parent company came into play for TSA, and that is when Trans States Holdings (TSH) was born. Creating a parent company allowed for the pursuit of a completely new certificate, separate from TSA, that would allow the purchase of larger aircraft and the acceptance of the new market opportunities uninhibited by scope clauses or contractual obligations. This process would take some time, but it was the intent of TSH to start immediately to increase their chances of success once everything was in place. They needed to create the new Holding company, staff it, then start the ball rolling on creating a new certificate under TSH. Everything would be controlled by TSH, and TSA would still be able to honor its contractual scope clause agreements with its code share carriers, thus keeping the business that already had.

It was brilliant. Not that this hadn't happened before, but that it would happen quickly enough to be one of only a handful of competitors in this new market. Something that was direly necessary in order to secure the future of TSH, which included TSA. The new certificate would eventually be called GJ Airlines, LLC. As a separate carrier controlled by TSH, this new company would be the vehicle that all would instill new hope to carry TSH into the future of US domestic air travel. Or would it...

The TSA pilots saw this new sister company as a threat to their very existence, and not at all a savior of their future even though the mjority of the TSA pilot group has an average 75% turn- over rate. Pilots came to TSA to get the coveted FAA Part 121 Pilot In Command (PIC) hours and move on to a major airline, thereby effectively using the airline as a stepping stone to "higher" employment.

Even so, local ALPA union leadership for TSA immediately began a campaign against GJ and publicly persecuted anyone who "crossed the line" to help start this new company. Demeaning comments and derogatory statements were published on internet lounges, ie. www.tsalounge.com and www.flightinfo.com, and printed on flyers handed out at various airports around the country in an attempt to build an atmosphere of fear for anyone who would dare work at GJGJ employees were quickly labeled "scabs", which is a term used for individuals who cross a picket line during a strike. They were also labeled non-union employees even as they were courted by one of the largest unions in the country, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. They were accused of helping in the "race to the bottom" by accepting poor working conditions and low pay even though a union contract was in negotiation with industry average or better figures. Blacklists were created by TSA pilots as a scare tactic against new hires at GJ in an attempt to make them quit or defamate their character. Propaganda websites were created to elevate the level of awareness TSA pilots believed the industry should know, i.e. www.GJpilots.com. ALPA filed lawsuits and Alter-Ego grievances stating GJ as a "pariah" alter-ego in the industry and that it was illegally being created to circumvent TSA and ALPA. Skywest Airlines, a true non-union carrier who would also be a major competitor in this new market setting the industry standard on the low side, did not even get this kind of treatment directed against its company or pilots.

CONT>>>>>>>>>>>>