G-VSP South Florida????????

[LXJ31]

If you hire three new pilots, your numbers are correct for year 1, Ace. For every following year, its only the cost of recurrent. Not only that, but if you retain quality people, they will become more efficient in executing their job, thereby adding to savings over someone fresh off the street.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

You thought wrong; I meant primary, so I used the word primary. Do I need to use the word principal? Do they not mean one in the same? Because I did not use the word you might use am I wrong? Easy with the ego.

Having line pilots working on things such as fuel prices, training, ect is small time? Hardly. These guys come in at their own discretion and do these things. This all got started because the pilots asked if there were inhouse projects they could work on, not because we got cheap or lazy. Only 1/4th of our pilots participate in doing these things. You are just a fool. These pilots get paid extra and are assigned a management title to come in and do things that give them the experience needed for them to go out on their own one day and run a 1st class flight deparment. Most will probably never leave, but they have this experience in their back pocket just in case. Small time? No. Efficient? Yes

I'll I can say again is WOW. First off, you need to calm down and try to say what you have to say in short, succint sentences. Second, you keep saying 'primary', I think you mean 'principal'. I don't mind a lashing, but give your fingers a rest.

All I can say is that I've seen your attitude before, and many a flight department has gone to charter or fractional because of the whole "he can afford a GV, so buying the most expensive jacks is just a drop in the bucket". And you think I'VE got a bad attitude? I just spend my owners money responsibly.

As for that second paragraph (manifesto), it sounds like you need a department manager. Line pilots negotiating fuel prices, training, etc? Small time.

And yes, our GV came with 6 slots at FSI, but not everyone buys a brand-new plane (this thread is asking about a GVSP, there is no such thing).

Ace

 

[AA717driver]

I've heard both primary and principal used interchangably.

We have extra duties at my company. I have not yet been assigned one because today is my one year anniversary and they don't have any duties that are unassigned. That won't hurt my pay.

If I turn down an assignment or take one and do a half-a$$ed job at it and get it taken away, it will certainly be reflected in my pay. That's just the way my company works. I just figure it's the way corporate is. We don't have to wash anyone's dog or car but doing aviation-related duties is not outside the scope of reasonable requirements of the position.

JMO.TC

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I think a few extra duties are fairly normal in corp, and those who choose to spend the extra time doing it should be compansated extra..however, those who chose not too shouldn't be punsihed either.

Everyone should get paid to be a pilot, those who take on stupid titles like "Director of Training" or "Director of Fuel Sales" (or whatever...) should get something extra. Some like to have their hands in the daily operations, some dont. I for one hate to be idle...If Im not multi-tasking, Im bored.

But of course...

If someone has one of those corp jobs where you make TOP BUCKS, have great job security, and never have to do ANYTHING except show up and fly, please let me know where to send a resume.

.

 

[fokkerjet]

With the "extra duties" mentioned, why would I have to come into the hangar to do them? If you want "face-time", make an appointment, otherwise if the job can be done on the phone, or computer, let me pick when and where I want to do it and judge my bonus based on results.

 

[Gearmunky]

Our flight department is small (6) group of guys and we all do a little something in the office to help things go smooth. I think that's a reasonable request and it's factored into our reviews when the time comes. In the mean time we get lunch and things like that.

I also look at it like Chief Pilot training, like 757/BBJ Capt. said. If I leave here I still have some out of the cockpit skills to have when it comes down to getting hired somewhere else. I don't think any job in this business is permanent so I learn all I can while I have the opportunity. A lot of things can be learned hanging around the office.

G200, I don't know how true it is, but I hear the P&G guys got it pretty good

757/BBJ Capt.- You're a rare breed, it's nice to know that people in the corporate world do really exist that think the way you do.

 

[fokkerjet]

question???

Can anyone give a valid reason why my bonus should be tied to how anytimes I'm seen in the office verses based on my job performance, whether it's my main job as a pilot, or a secondary job that can be performed away from the office at home or on the road? Just curious

 

[semperfido]

you have to "play the game"-- they need the perception that you are doing your part. sometimes that is hard for them to get, if they never see you. i don't advocate going to hangar every day either. play the game and make it easy on yourself. the bonus deal is just part of the game.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

You thought wrong; I meant primary, so I used the word primary. Do I need to use the word principal? Do they not mean one in the same? Because I did not use the word you might use am I wrong? Easy with the ego.

Having line pilots working on things such as fuel prices, training, ect is small time? Hardly. These guys come in at their own discretion and do these things. This all got started because the pilots asked if there were inhouse projects they could work on, not because we got cheap or lazy. Only 1/4th of our pilots participate in doing these things. You are just a fool. These pilots get paid extra and are assigned a management title to come in and do things that give them the experience needed for them to go out on their own one day and run a 1st class flight deparment. Most will probably never leave, but they have this experience in their back pocket just in case. Small time? No. Efficient? Yes

You’re right, and I’m sorry in advance for the grammar lesson. Principle and primary can be used if you saying “a principle, or a primary”. As soon as you say THE primary, as a title, it is incorrect. When referring to the boss, owner, etc., you would call them the principle.



Is your flight department IS-BAO or ISO 9002? Do you have a defined training program to ‘become’ the fuel negotiator, hotel reservationist, etc.? Is there even an employee manual that clearly defines each of these extra duties and how they are distributed? Nothing wrong with efficiently utilizing your assets, and I’m by no means a premadonna who only wants to fly the plane, however, small time is when it is ad-hoc with no organized, thought out, and documented plan. Imagine if we were to be flight trained that way.



Ace

 

[semperfido]

i personally like "small time" - by your def- i have worked at both. it just depends on the people and the resources. adhoc with 3 G's is kinda fun

 

[fokkerjet]

I've worked at a couple of large flight departments; one that factored in "face-time" in order to get ahead, and another that doesn't want to see your ugly mug around the office unless you're flying. The "face-time" department had so many B.S. managers "hanging around" playing manager that those left without a neat little title ended up picking up the load by flying both the "managers" trips along with their own. In the other department without "face-time", you are provided with no titles, but they offer you the freedom to work from home, plus, nobody else is out flying your trip because your too busy getting "face-time".

Playing the game is "old school" and nobody should have to go into the office just to go there and be seen. This job requires enough time away from home as it is, and as long as I fulfill all my assigned duties, who cares where I perform them from as long as they are satifactory to the department.

 

[semperfido]

agreed...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

agreed...

agreed too.

Even though I don't work as many days as the rest of our corporate employees, my job IS life and death and has WAY longer days. Even when I'm not flying, I'm thinking about my next flight or my last flight. Been doing it for over 30 years and that part doesn't get any easier. When I'm on, I'm REALLY on. When I'm off, let me be off.

Ace (off at the moment)

 

[semperfido]

"life and death" "really on"...i don't get it---must not be the typical corp gig because i sure never feel that way. but i do like my off time too. which has been bountiful. and i do sometimes go "in" , just so they don't forget what i look like.

 

[G4G5]

In a lot of these must show your face, tied to your preformance bonus, larger departments, it's part of "playing the game". HR/"Downtown" wants to see proper utilization of there man power resources. Which to them means days worked and that falls on the AD or CP to justify it to HR.

Now in most of these types of departments the chief pillot and or aviation director is required to be there every day. Now it becomes, if I am here, you are here. The insecure mgr or lazy mgr types feel the need to justify and delegate. Which equates to additional projects, which equates to additional face time.

Whenever I have worked for a place like this I have found that the best course of action is to go into the boss and ask him how many days he expects to see each person fly each month. Then if I am meeting that requirements (14, 15 or 16 days) I am free to avoid the additional projects. Ex, If it looks like I am only going to fly 10 days for the month then I come in once a week and do what ever project/tack I am assigned. I have found in the past it's better to come up with your own idea, then wait to be assigned one.

Currently I am in a 3 pilot, 1fa, 1 tech, single plane operation so we have no choice. If you aren't doing it, it doesn't get done.