G boys & girls coming wearing gold ties.

[zman300]

So what was the point of your original post? I read what YOU wrote:

"Who will want to go first, unsure of their welcome, as they are? It is suggested that the least popular in the group will want to move, as they have few friends anyway.

I view that list of four (allowances made for the one who has tried to start anew) with mixed feelings. It seems that many of the NJ pilots are anxious to send them off with cries of "Good Riddance", and I don't blame them. They failed the group because of their arrogance and apathy. On the other hand, we all know that first impressions count for a lot. Those 4 could hardly be described as putting your best foot forward. If they go first, the rest of the pilots that follow may find themselves once again fixing the problems they leave in their wake. It's going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out."

I asked you not to try to justify yourself. Heed my advice; you're failing miserably.

 

[Hawkered]

Zman,

I agree completely. Let's just leave the politics out of it and get back to work. Please remember that Netjetwife is just one individual, she does not speak for all pilots at Netjets, nor does she represent the views of any other pilot's wife. She is not employed at Netjets, nor does she fulfill an elected or paid position within the union.

Some of the wives' and other pilots have taken exception to the "we" statements that she has been publishing here.

Hope I can relay a position report for you or buy you a beer sometime!

 

[netjetwife]

Not so fast there, Hawkered. How many pilots are employed by each? Don't you think you see more NJA pilots than NJI pilots? Another thing that's been around as long as canned answers, is low morale. Let's be fair here. NJI pilots have not been underpaid/overworked as the NJA pilots have. That does have negative consequences such as not taking pride in your appearance. Are you completely sure that you have noticed these problems recently? Since the new CBA? Or is your opinion based on past behavior when morale had sunk to an all-time low?

Now to the common ground that I have always tried to find with you, usually with some success. Talking with a trash mouth is a bad reflection on the individual and the company he/she represents. I have little patience for that and agree that it makes one look unprofessional. As to appearance, our NJ pilots are not only NJA pilots, they are 1108 members. As such, I'm sending out a personal plea to look sharp, sound smart, and make your union...and company...proud. I keep sticking up for you guys, so the least you can do is tuck in your shirt and save the sneakers for the hotel. Being over weight does affect your appearance, but more importantly, your health. Please slim down so that you can better enjoy your time at home with your families.

Hawkered are they wearing sneakers with the uniform, to company recurrent, or what? You didn't give us enough information about that particular complaint. I do hope that your definition of a "class act" encompasses how one treats others. Warmth and a caring personality can save a slightly rumbled appearance, but a jerk is a jerk, no matter how sharp s/he looks. I'm sure we could find both types at both places.

 

[Hawkered]

With uniform-to fly a jet. Very recently.

Netjet Wife, don't do as we often do with our military operations. Win the war, but lose the peace!

It's time to get back to work, take care of our people, keep our lines of communication open..and stop the "them and us".

Let's win the peace!

 

[Diesel]

We have guys showing up to work in sneakers and running around with unaltered uniforms with their shirts hanging out, grossly overweight with poor personal grooming standards. NJI doesn't!!

What are you high? I've seen more overweight guys at NJI than i can shake a stick at. Both groups have them. What an odd way to judge a group of pilots that YOU work with.

Yeah the NJA guys look more hurried because it's 14/10 till the cows come home and I'm on leg 7 for the day. Sorry i don't look like my FA pressed my uniform on the ferry. (nja planes have fa's too) I'd love to see what you look like after a couple of legs in the U boat humping bags in the summer.

Last time I looked though the size of the Gut didn't determine how good a pilot the person is.

If your going to be honest with people at least tell the truth and be honest.

 

[netjetwife]

Zman,

I agree completely. Let's just leave the politics out of it and get back to work. Please remember that Netjetwife is just one individual, she does not speak for all pilots at Netjets, nor does she represent the views of any other pilot's wife. She is not employed at Netjets, nor does she fulfill an elected or paid position within the union.

Some of the wives' and other pilots have taken exception to the "we" statements that she has been publishing here.

Hope I can relay a position report for you or buy you a beer sometime!

My, my, Hawkered! It really is feeling like old times with you today.
Again, let's be fair, shall we? Who on this board does speak for all pilots? At NJA or any other company? None of us here speaks for any one other than ourselves. We can, however, reflect the views of others and even share them, if we are so inclined. I happen to believe that I am in the mainstream of opinion on most issues faced by the NJ pilots. We cannot say that the same has always been true of you. Your support of SU was a day late and a vote short, originally, wasn't it? As far as my being a company employee or holding a paid union position, everyone knows that isn't the case. Are you pointing out the obvious to enlighten Zman, or just to be spiteful?

Let me assist you. Guilty as charged. Now let's give credit where credit is due. I have proven that I do follow the issues well enough to understand the nuances of the threads, and I am considerate of others in my posting. Due to my husband's position as a volunteer in 1108, and our involvement as a family, I have a front row seat that gives me a different perspective from many of the other wives. As for the "we" statements, Hawkered, are they recent, or will you have to do a search on my posting to come up with some mud to sling? I have become very conscious of my usage of pronouns since joining the board. Sadly, to the point of repressing my pride in the NJ pilots and 1108. Meaning that I often replace "our" with "the", before I hit the "Submit" button. Hardly fair, really, considering the sacrifice--financially and time-wise-- my family has made, and continues to make, for the good of the union. Thankfully, there are NJ pilots and wives, that do recognize that fact and have expressed their appreciation. The recent birthday wishes I received tell me that my contribution is valued along with my husband's.

 

[netjetwife]

With uniform-to fly a jet. Very recently.

Netjet Wife, don't do as we often do with our military operations. Win the war, but lose the peace!

It's time to get back to work, take care of our people, keep our lines of communication open..and stop the "them and us".

Let's win the peace!

Unless you actually spoke to the pilot at fault, I'd withhold judgment. You might be missing pertinent information. I can tell you that my husband had shoe failure out on the road before. He was squishing when he walked because the air-pocket thingamajig broke. That pilot could have had an even worse "blow out". Or, what if he had hurt his foot and couldn't get it into his dress shoe? It's such a strange thing to do that most likely there's a reasonable explanation. I advise him to contact a Steward if you're pressing "charges".

With all due respect, Hawkered, what you're suggesting has been the focus at my house for months now.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I've met a whole bunch of NJI pilots and flight attendants on the road and I think they're all a class operation.

I'm sure that's true. The odd thing is, though I see the NJI Gs at many of the FBOs, I very rarely see the crews - except through their cockpit windows.

 

[netjetwife]

So what was the point of your original post? I read what YOU wrote: The point was to try to help an outsider understand a complicated subject in a fairly concise manner. As it was, I was still accused of being long-winded. It appears to be a case of danged if you do, and danged if you don't. For you, it seems, that my first post didn't say enough.

"Who will want to go first, unsure of their welcome, as they are? It is suggested that the least popular in the group will want to move, as they have few friends anyway. Any new situation comes with at least some questions. Many people are uncomfortable in the beginning. That is simply human nature. To ignore the fact that there has been some friction between the groups, will not help to solve the problem and mend the rift. Like Hawkered, I think we need to take an honest look at the situation. Camaraderie means a lot. The pilots that cross over to NJI will be leaving friends they have flown with for years so it isn't unreasonable to think that some will pass on the opportunity. Hence, the suggestion that those with fewer friends are a logical choice to nominate.

I view that list of four (allowances made for the one who has tried to start anew) with mixed feelings. It seems that many of the NJ pilots are anxious to send them off with cries of "Good Riddance", and I don't blame them. They failed the group because of their arrogance and apathy. On the other hand, we all know that first impressions count for a lot. Those 4 could hardly be described as putting your best foot forward. If they go first, the rest of the pilots that follow may find themselves once again fixing the problems they leave in their wake. It's going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out."

I asked you not to try to justify yourself. Heed my advice; you're failing miserably.

I disagree completely. Obviously, we don't share the same perspective. My post was based on two factors--the understanding that there is a complex scenario, and human nature in how we all deal with new situations. Change brings discomfort, initially, until we settle into our new surroundings. Even a move that we are looking forward to can bring a measure of anxiety when we are breaking new ground. In the pilot integration, those basic elements are further complicated by a legal issue that has yet to be worked out entirely. It will be interesting.

 

[TCA]

The Record

This is slow getting in due to a computer goof and 10 thumbs typing.


Lets set the record a little straighter.............

I left a job in 1998 to come here for reasons that had nothing to do with pay.

In 7 and a half years I have not come close to G2 pay. I never knew what others made here, but my discussions led me to the conclusion that all were less than the street rate.

My co-workers are my family so please do not portray to others things about us that you have no experience or knowledge of. Because someone gets payed more than me doesn't mean I am underpayed.

Nobody here has been underworked and overpayed not even the mgt. guys and girls (I know your watching).


Congratulations on the long overdue contract. I am sure we (and you) will be the recipients of its positive aspects.


Still Climbing
TCA

 

[netjetwife]

TCA.....picture me looking around....are you replying to my post, or another's? I made no comparisons within NJI. The parallel I drew was between NJA pay and NJI. You are correct that I don't know the inner workings of your side of the company. I apologize if you got that impression, that is, if you are referring to my post?

I firmly believe that the NJA pilots were definitely underpaid, and thus, overworked. How nice for you that you were able to take a job without considering the pay as a top priority. Can one surmise, then, that the pay was sufficient enough to be a non-issue? All pilots should be that fortunate, if such was the case. Relating to your co-workers as family, does rather illustrate my point about camaraderie among the pilots. I've seen the same at NJA. That didn't stop them from feeling UNDERpaid, though, when they compared their paychecks to the BBJ pilots. Lest I be accused of speaking for the pilots, that observation is derived from the vast number who voted down the Failed TA. I understand what you're saying, TCA. When you are paid fairly, you don't quibble if others make a little more. That wasn't the case for the NJA pilots, however,

My family, and I dare say many more (if I'm to be allowed that speculation, Hawkered? ) have, indeed, benefited from the new contract.
Thank you.

 

[FL450]

Wondering if #90 might be a wild card and toss his hat in the NJI ring? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. April 4 could change everything.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I don;t know about this whole NJI thing.......They don't accrue sick time, no representation, not sure about the medical benefits, 4 years seat lock.....And you're still under paid given the equipment you're flying.

Where's the appeal? What am I missing?

 

[FL450]

Will have to wait and see the final LOA this week for the details. Building up Class 4 time sure can't hurt for longevity pay!

 

[notaNJApilot]

I have some questions; maybe someone will answer. I like to learn new things:

Why are NJA pilots going to NJI?
Is the integration susposed to mimic the NJA/BNJ moves?
Will NJI pilots ever come to NJA?
What is NJI Capt and FO pay?

If NJA pilots are allowed to go to NJI, will they ever be allowed to go to NJE? NJME?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

yet the G whiz boys on this board are very quiet.

And for a very good reason; we’re tired of it. This issue needs to be decided by the United States Court System, sooner than later in my opinion. It is a waste of time to post endless dibble on this obviously atomic subject.

The two sides are never going to agree on this issue; much less an actual integration of the two pilot groups. So I say send it to the Judge and what happens… happens.

 

[netjetwife]

Do-82, that note of uncertainty has just vindicated my post on the subject. Being "unsure of your welcome" is much more complicated than wondering if you'll be greeted politely upon arrival. It may have nothing to do with the pilots themselves (though a friendly attitude on both sides will help) and everything to do with the differing set of priorities involved. I think we're witnessing some of that discomfort with the unknown, which I mentioned. The NJI pilots shouldn't take it personally if some of the NJA pilots decide that they're quite happy in their own neighborhood--thanks anyway.

Likewise, your post, WP, explains the wording of my own. There has been tension between the groups. It sounds as though you've decided to give up on finding common ground before the first transplants have even arrived. When you add DO's concerns to the equation, it makes the opportunity a bit daunting, does it not? Who can blame the NJA pilots for not wanting to be the first to move?

 

[2EASYPilot]

Heck, if the NJA pilots do not want to make the jump I'd be happy to...no union, G's and a bunch a great guys I already know !!! Live where I want...win, win.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Hey Wolf.....This thing will go to court at the end of the 3 years, maybe longer, as outlines in our CBA. Hope you're comfortable sitting on the sideline. I'm sure your boss has your best interests in mind.

Sorry...guess that wasn't too friendly NJW.....but then again, Wolf isn't know for his kindness either. The NJI folks that I have had the pleasure of meeting are extremely curteous and just want to do their jobs as we all do.

 

[netjetwife]

I think the slots will be filled....we're only talking about a handful, after all. My point is that no one should be surprised if not everyone is clamoring to cross over. With their new contract, it might be that a lot of the NJ pilots are happy where they're at. Among their friends. I noticed that you did make mention of that factor, 2Easy. You'd be joining yours, while they'll be leaving friends behind. It will be understandable if that is factored into the decision making process. I wouldn't be surprised if that's also one of the reasons the majority of Options pilots chose to "remodel" rather than move.

On the subject of friends--my thanks for the friendship that has been extended to me by some members of this board.
L/NJW