Furoughs at Midwest

[CitationLover]

I like that optimism, but the vote never came close to passing the two times I was furloughed. Maybe the senior guys will think of more than just themselves this time around.

There may not be a vote this time. There was a motion to have a special MEC meeting consider an assessment, of which the MEC could vote it in without a pilotwide vote.

 

[Captainjerky]

Government

In their infinite wisdom they think it is cheaper to let 2 717's stand idle and keep making lease payments than it is to fly them.

Oil $110+/bbl economics I guess. With Frontier's Ch. 11, the government is going to need to get involved. A lot of job's are being lost in an election year. Politicians don't like this. If Bear Stearns gets bailed out, why not the airlines?

I often wonder about something like this and what it will take for the government to notice. The aviation industry is supposedly considered vital to our national interests, hence the RLA and the government's ability to mess with striking pilot groups. So what will it take before they start thinking they need to protect this 'vital interest' we are a part of? Maybe I don't completely understand the implications of the laws out there, but I always figured they needed us. I guess we'll see...

 

[CitationLover]

I often wonder about something like this and what it will take for the government to notice. The aviation industry is supposedly considered vital to our national interests, hence the RLA and the government's ability to mess with striking pilot groups. So what will it take before they start thinking they need to protect this 'vital interest' we are a part of? Maybe I don't completely understand the implications of the laws out there, but I always figured they needed us. I guess we'll see...

If AMR declares bankruptcy, perhaps that might get some attention. Their revenue losses the last couple of days have to be huge.

 

[Kharma Police]

Good luck guys, time for the board to kick Tim to the curb and bring in Kolshak.

 

[GOULET!]

If AMR declares bankruptcy, perhaps that might get some attention. Their revenue losses the last couple of days have to be huge.

Maybe when MESA declares bankrupcy. HA!!! :uzi:

 

[Colonel Savage]

The aviation industry is supposedly considered vital to our national interests...I always figured they needed us.

The airline industry, with few exceptions, is no longer run as a serious business. Managers have gone to the "sell a ticket at any price" mentality, at the same time they "churn the fleets" and discard larger, more effecient airframes. All this so they can make their windfall deals while lining their pockets, to purchase fleets of aircraft that are more expensive per seat mile to operate.

Fuel prices have now shattered this "business model", and the "managers" now have to find a way to divest themselves of these small jet fleets that they were once so enamoured with, and replace them with larger hulls in a very poor investment climate.

And flying planeloads of parents and kids to Wally World on discount fares is not going to hack it anymore. Oil has become a very precious resource, and now and forever must be used very wisely, a notion that has been very difficult for this generation of airline manager to embrace.

Important? Perhaps there was a day when that was true. Berlin Airlift? International longhaul? National Defense? Priority cargo? Business travel? Those are important. Vacations? Gambling junkets? College kids flying for school/vacations/holidays? Not important. Trains, busses and cars are for that.

The airline industry is no longer taken seriously because it doesn't take itself seriously. As oil mover higher, there will be an exterme capacity rationalization taking place. That is what economc downturns do, they rid the marketplace of excess. Airlines have become frivilous, but fuel prices will solve that.

 

[Propsync]

Oil has become a very precious resource, and now and forever must be used very wisely,

Leveraged, not precious

 

[ultrarunner]

There may not be a vote this time. There was a motion to have a special MEC meeting consider an assessment, of which the MEC could vote it in without a pilotwide vote.

YUCK!

One of the advantages is that as a union member, your pay cannot be arbitrarily garnished. While I would support giving money to the unemployed, I'd want to vote on it...

...interesting.

 

[PCL_128]

There may not be a vote this time. There was a motion to have a special MEC meeting consider an assessment, of which the MEC could vote it in without a pilotwide vote.

If memory serves, the Bylaws don't allow for this. I'm pretty sure that the Bylaws require a membership vote before assessment dollars are spent. I'll have to look it up later when I have more time to be sure.

 

[Windsor]

Very sorry to hear about the furloughs. As an ex Mid-Ex employee (ramp 03-04) I know what an awesome product Midwest offers. Its an absolute shame to see the company being run into the ground by mismanagement. Unfortunatly I think the combination of high fuel prices and now being psedo owned by NW is the beginning of the end.
You would think management would realize that finding ways to save $$ thru efficient fuel management would help the bottom line more than labor cuts. 300lbs a flight ='s lots of money saved. $60,000 per FO cut = short term gain, long term loss.

 

[CitationLover]

If memory serves, the Bylaws don't allow for this. I'm pretty sure that the Bylaws require a membership vote before assessment dollars are spent. I'll have to look it up later when I have more time to be sure.

C. Assessments may be levied on the members in the employ of any airline by the respective
Master Executive Council to cover extraordinary expenses for any strike or other benefit purposes,
and for any other lawful trade union purpose, by a majority vote by secret ballot of the members of
such Master Executive Council, or by a majority vote of the valid ballots returned of the membership of such airline voting in a membership referendum conducted by secret ballot under Association Voting Procedures.

Thus the MEC (which in MEH's case is 3 members) can do this. There is also a secret membership ballot option subject to a 15 day notice and special MEC meeting given in the previous section.

B. Assessments may be levied on members of a Local Council to cover extraordinary expenses for
any strike or other benefit purposes, and for any other lawful trade union purpose, by a majority vote by secret ballot of the members in good standing of said Council, voting at a regular or special membership meeting, after fifteen (15) days' notice of intention to vote on such question is mailed to each member of that Local Council at his last known home address, or by a majority vote of the valid ballots returned by the Active members in good standing voting in a membership referendum
conducted by secret ballot under Association Voting Procedures. Proxies may not be used in any
such balloting.




The impression I got was the MEC was embarrassed by what happened after the 9/11 furloughs. Was this the impression you got FlyWolf or Dashdriver?

 

[Eagle757shark]

Whoa.......STOP! Why should the government get involved? Folks is it the governments fault that the airline executives refuse to raise fares to pay for the cost of doing business? HELL NO! I keep seeing load factors by most of the airlines in the mid 80 percentile. Folks that tells me one damn thing.....WE AINT charging enough to use our product. We are giving it away! Yes there is a point where the consumer says enough I'm not going to pay any more. But have we reached that point, NO! Nationwide we are paying on average $3.32 a gallon in fuel, have consumers gotten angry enough and stopped driving, NO! The airlines have to stop making excuses and start passing the cost to the consumer like every other industry. Airlines selling tickets for $10 or $39 dollars to fly from point A to point B in this current environment will not get a tear from me. That is just plain stupid! It cost money to fly those beautiful airplanes and the airlines have to do a better job of educating the consumer. I will say it over and over.....it is better to have a 60% load factor and break even than a 85% load factor and take a loss. These airline executives get paid the big bucks not when times are good, but supposedly when times are bad. They are supposed to figure out what medium the consumer has said is enough and will stop paying. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have not hit that point yet. So leave the government out of it, let the executives earn their PAY and BONUS'!

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry, but the executives aren't going to do what they're paid to do. They never have, and never will. The industry actually functioned under regulation, so it's time to return to it. All hail the CAB!

 

[PCL_128]

C. Assessments may be levied on the members in the employ of any airline by the respective
Master Executive Council to cover extraordinary expenses for any strike or other benefit purposes,
and for any other lawful trade union purpose, by a majority vote by secret ballot of the members of
such Master Executive Council, or by a majority vote of the valid ballots returned of the membership of such airline voting in a membership referendum conducted by secret ballot under Association Voting Procedures.

Thus the MEC (which in MEH's case is 3 members) can do this. There is also a secret membership ballot option subject to a 15 day notice and special MEC meeting given in the previous section.

B. Assessments may be levied on members of a Local Council to cover extraordinary expenses for
any strike or other benefit purposes, and for any other lawful trade union purpose, by a majority vote by secret ballot of the members in good standing of said Council, voting at a regular or special membership meeting, after fifteen (15) days' notice of intention to vote on such question is mailed to each member of that Local Council at his last known home address, or by a majority vote of the valid ballots returned by the Active members in good standing voting in a membership referendum
conducted by secret ballot under Association Voting Procedures. Proxies may not be used in any
such balloting.




The impression I got was the MEC was embarrassed by what happened after the 9/11 furloughs. Was this the impression you got FlyWolf or Dashdriver?

You're correct. Guess my C & BLs memory is starting to fail me after being away from ALPA work for a while.

 

[FlyWolf]

never mind

 

[FlyWolf]

------------

 

[Donsa320]

Whoa.......STOP! Why should the government get involved? Folks is it the governments fault that the airline executives refuse to raise fares to pay for the cost of doing business? HELL NO! I keep seeing load factors by most of the airlines in the mid 80 percentile. Folks that tells me one damn thing.....WE AINT charging enough to use our product. We are giving it away! Yes there is a point where the consumer says enough I'm not going to pay any more. But have we reached that point, NO! Nationwide we are paying on average $3.32 a gallon in fuel, have consumers gotten angry enough and stopped driving, NO! The airlines have to stop making excuses and start passing the cost to the consumer like every other industry. Airlines selling tickets for $10 or $39 dollars to fly from point A to point B in this current environment will not get a tear from me. That is just plain stupid! It cost money to fly those beautiful airplanes and the airlines have to do a better job of educating the consumer. I will say it over and over.....it is better to have a 60% load factor and break even than a 85% load factor and take a loss. These airline executives get paid the big bucks not when times are good, but supposedly when times are bad. They are supposed to figure out what medium the consumer has said is enough and will stop paying. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have not hit that point yet. So leave the government out of it, let the executives earn their PAY and BONUS'!

Amen. I have some real and current numbers for you (all) to digest. At the local carrier here the current fuel costs are $70 per passenger per HOUR. The fleet consists of 717's,-80's and 50 seat CRJ's. All the hand wringing in the world won't change that cost figure much. The only realistic course of action is that fares have to rise to cover cost.
Your own carrier's fuel cost may vary but by how much?
Effcient airplanes and hedges help but again by how much?
Shrinking the airline slows the negative cash flow but only delays the inevitable.
Crews could fly for nothing with little effect.
Fares need to be realistc at today's oil prices.

DC

 

[DASHDRIVER]

CL,

I think they will still put it to a member vote. If I wasn't being furliughed I would want the option to say yes or no before giving money out of my check. Whit that said I would vote yes, and have in the past at other companies. I just hope that our pilot group has learned a lesson and that the guys that got screwed last time remember how hard it was to get things going again after nine eleven. There are less jobs in the industry now then then.

 

[CitationLover]

CL,

I think they will still put it to a member vote. If I wasn't being furliughed I would want the option to say yes or no before giving money out of my check. Whit that said I would vote yes, and have in the past at other companies. I just hope that our pilot group has learned a lesson and that the guys that got screwed last time remember how hard it was to get things going again after nine eleven. There are less jobs in the industry now then then.

Well either way you can make your feelings known at the open MEC meeting on May 12th. I am sure if the majority desires a pilot wide vote it will be done that way, however just pointing out the MEC can unilaterally impose one.