Fully developed stall, is it safe???

[UnAnswerd]

We've stalled the airplane, but recovered very quickly. I can't explain it, but part of me wants to experience a fully developed stall, with a prolonged recovery. In short, I want to experience what it's like to drop like a rock. Maybe my instructor wont do this, but I was thinking about trying it if and when I get my certificate.

First, is this safe??? The only thing I can think if is not to exceed VNE, and not to induce a secondary stall by pulling out too fast. Anyone ever stall it, and just let it dive for a thousand feet or so????????

 

[shamrock]

What type of plane? The Piper you have listed?

No big deal.

 

[urflyingme?!]

You can do spin training. I would highly recommend it! You will do all kinds of stalls and basically screw up on purpose, then wrestle it back to controlled flight.

 

[UnAnswerd]

What type of plane?

I train in a little Cherokee 140.

 

[Tarzan]

Once the airplane stalls, just keep the yoke in your gut. Use the rudder to maintain wings level. No big deal, if the airplane starts to spin, step on the high wing.

 

[shamrock]

I used to stall Warriors all the time. If you don't release the back pressure on the yoke the plane will simply stall and recover over and over again. I always had a hard time making it do anything the least bit scary. Even cross controlled stalls were a non-event.

The challenge in most trainers I've flown was to keep it stalled. They've all wanted to recover on their own.

 

[Flightist]

I think you're missing the point on the nature of stalls. Fully developed? The wing stalls at the critical angle of attack, usually about 15 to 17 degrees to the relative wind. Fully developed means you're not going to release the back pressure on the yoke when it stalls. This is called a falling leaf stall. With reasonably careful rudder control, it's a non-event. The forward cg drops the nose every few seconds and you regain some airflow over the wings, the nose comes up a little and stalls completely again and then the nose drops again. In some airplanes, depending on the cg at the time this pitch oscillation can be just a few degrees. In some cases maybe 10 or 20 degrees. Because your coming down relatively flat your descent rate can be as little as 500' / min. and your airspeed is very low. You have to hold the yoke hard aft to do this. Believe me it's not difficult. You control wing drop with the rudder - just step on the high wing. But don't do this without altitude, spin training, or with an instructor that's experienced with it. I don't think they should give anyone a CFI that can't demonstrate these. By the way, take a newer 172 S or SP model and you will come down so flat it's amazing with just a few degrees of pitch oscillation and less than a 500' / min descent. Totally cool. But remember, find an instructor whose experienced doing them.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Do the falling leaf and when one wing drops step on the other to keep them wings level and youll be fine. if you want to have alot of fun hold the yoke all the way back and just stomp on one of the rudders and hold it. Then tell the CFI its his plane

 

[LearLove]

We've stalled the airplane, but recovered very quickly. I can't explain it, but part of me wants to experience a fully developed stall, with a prolonged recovery. In short, I want to experience what it's like to drop like a rock. Maybe my instructor wont do this, but I was thinking about trying it if and when I get my certificate.

First, is this safe??? The only thing I can think if is not to exceed VNE, and not to induce a secondary stall by pulling out too fast. Anyone ever stall it, and just let it dive for a thousand feet or so????????

I hope your instructor isn't scared to do a fully developed stall or whatever you guys call it these days. Just pull back on the stick/yoke and hold it there. It won't bite you.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Interesting points of veiw here. Maybe it would be more fun to go from straight and level and mash the yoke forward!!!

 

[Kream926]

a 52 as we all probably know will recover from a stall and a spin on its own. go up to like 8000 in one and try it

 

[ToiletDuck]

take out the gyro's and give her a spin. Look back at the tail it's fun watching it bend!

 

[Flightist]

a 52 as we all probably know will recover from a stall and a spin on its own. go up to like 8000 in one and try it

I'm sure you didn't mean to tell a student pilot with 10.3 hours to practice spins on his own. Recover on it's own? Yeah, it'll recover into a steep spiral and a few seconds later you're doing 140 knots, thinking gee this is fun! Get some spin training first.

 

[FN FAL]

We've stalled the airplane, but recovered very quickly. I can't explain it, but part of me wants to experience a fully developed stall, with a prolonged recovery. In short, I want to experience what it's like to drop like a rock. Maybe my instructor wont do this, but I was thinking about trying it if and when I get my certificate.

First, is this safe??? The only thing I can think if is not to exceed VNE, and not to induce a secondary stall by pulling out too fast. Anyone ever stall it, and just let it dive for a thousand feet or so????????

It doesn't dive when you stall...and it doesn't hurt the plane to remain stalled. In fact, the one I'm flying tomorrow has been stalled continiously for 36 hours this weekend and it'll be just fine.

 

[Kream926]

I'm sure you didn't mean to tell a student pilot with 10.3 hours to practice spins on his own. Recover on it's own? Yeah, it'll recover into a steep spiral and a few seconds later you're doing 140 knots, thinking gee this is fun! Get some spin training first.

im not tellin him to go do one. they are not fun. i dont like them and never did during my cfi training. go read my post again. all isaid was a 52 recovers on its own.

edit: i should have put with an instructor, sorry

 

[Flechas]

take out the gyro's and give her a spin. Look back at the tail it's fun watching it bend!

Tail doesn't bend, it's a visual illusion.

 

[GravityHater]

In fact, the one I'm flying tomorrow has been stalled continiously for 36 hours this weekend and it'll be just fine.

Mine is parked in a huge line of stalled aircraft on the ramp as we speak!
I do a stall every flight!

Hey, if you really want to do it right, don't gradually bring the nose up, waiting for the buffet, control slop etc. Get to 1.2VSo then haul it back with vigor. Any thing else is pretty whimpy.

Did I tell you about the overwhelmed student in the Citation (I was observing in the back) who had the stick shaker going at 400' on an ILS? He was a bit overwhelmed on that approach! (I was too)

what happened to RumpleTumbler?

 

[garf12]

if you want to have alot of fun hold the yoke all the way back and just stomp on one of the rudders and hold it. Then tell the CFI its his plane

Haha thats funny!

 

[nosehair]

they are not fun. i dont like them and never did during my cfi training.

Then you shouldn't be teaching. Or you should get some more spin training until you overcome your fear of the airplane. Seriously. You will transmit your fear to the student. Spin training is more than just being able to recover from an unintentional spin, it is about developing confidence in your self and your airplane.

 

[Kream926]

Then you shouldn't be teaching. Or you should get some more spin training until you overcome your fear of the airplane. Seriously. You will transmit your fear to the student. Spin training is more than just being able to recover from an unintentional spin, it is about developing confidence in your self and your airplane.

you it the nail on the head kinda. i think the only reason i dont like them was because my first CFI told me that he didnt like them either. i tont tell people i dont like them i just show 'em it and thats it. i dont like doing emergency aproaches at night really low. but i still do em.

 

[filejw]

May be time to look for a new CFI.Full stalls and a spin demo should be don some time early in your taining.I know I'm an old guy but the A/c don't fly and diff.Get some good basic training...Have fun.

 

[Immelman]

I agree about the CFI comment.. if he doesn't want, at the very minimum, to demonstrate a falling leaf to you, in a Cherokee, I'd dump him.

The falling leaf, in my opinion, should be mandatory in terms of spin awareness training. The whole idea is to learn to control the aircraft during a full stall - keeping the wings level. It may save your life some day if you make a mistake on base --> final and wind up in a stall... too many people have tied that way because of improper recovery and subsequent spin.

 

[hydroflyer]

a 52 as we all probably know will recover from a stall and a spin on its own. go up to like 8000 in one and try it

It may recover from an INCIPIENT spin on its own, but not always a fully developed spin. During spin training for my CFI, we did a fully developed spin to see if the plane would recover on its own, from a high altitude, let go of the controls, and it just continued to spin. We had to do the normal recovery procedure to get it out.

 

[minitour]

Do the falling leaf and when one wing drops step on the other to keep them wings level and youll be fine. if you want to have alot of fun hold the yoke all the way back and just stomp on one of the rudders and hold it. Then tell the CFI its his plane

no no no...the real fun is not adding in right rudder in a power-on stall and correcting with aileron at the last second.....

yeah...after one of those, it's time to hit the bottle...

-mini

 

[UnAnswerd]

I agree about the CFI comment.. if he doesn't want, at the very minimum, to demonstrate a falling leaf to you, in a Cherokee, I'd dump him.

That's a tad bit harsh. First, I think my instructor is doing a fine job teaching me. Second, I never asked him to demonstrate anything, so I know nothing of what he is or isn't willing to do. Also, I was under the impression that spin training was not required for private training.....

 

[Immelman]

...sorry I was under the wrong impression.

Never the less spin awareness training is required, right? You can talk about that all day long, but demonstrating the wing dropping and keeping it level dancing on the rudder is a great way to teach that. IMHO.

 

[filejw]

Mr UnAnswred,
Nobody is trying to be harsh,just see to it you get the best advise for your training.If my 21 and 20 yr old were learning to fly I would be sure an experienced instructor did full stalls and at least two turns in a spin with them.If your CFI hasn't got the background find someone who has and ride with them for 1 or 2 hrs.It will be worth the money.

 

[FN FAL]

Mine is parked in a huge line of stalled aircraft on the ramp as we speak!
I do a stall every flight!

Hey, if you really want to do it right, don't gradually bring the nose up, waiting for the buffet, control slop etc. Get to 1.2VSo then haul it back with vigor. Any thing else is pretty whimpy.

Did I tell you about the overwhelmed student in the Citation (I was observing in the back) who had the stick shaker going at 400' on an ILS? He was a bit overwhelmed on that approach! (I was too)

what happened to RumpleTumbler?

Gawd, you just reminded me....we were doing a 135 ride in a Navajo once. I was doing a stall under the hood with the chief pilot in the right seat and the next 135 checkride victim was killing time in the back.

When it came time to put power in, the right engine abruptly stumbled and rolled off towards being dead. There's that split second that seems like eternity where your brain is going..."Why the heck did that dumb sum fill in the blank pull an engine on me now?" He screams, "I didn't do that!" and as the plane starts to lurch to the right, I have the throttles coming back about the time he puts his mits on mine. The engine came back to life during the power reduction, but I think it kind of woke everybody up and we headed back to the field to turn the plane into maint.

On another note...if you ever get the chance to fly a narrow body 182 with a Horton STOL kit on it...you'll find it flys quite pleasantly in a stalled condition. You have total directional control with the yoke full aft...simple rudder corrections to keep you on course and a descent rate of about 500 FPM.