FUD at Flight Options

[FR8DOG777]

Nice post

Hey pimp daddy since your a moderator how bout letting loose with his ip address?

 

[Fozzy]

bob,
You are a TOOL! Even the moderators won't help you. How does it feel to know your peers would p____ on your grave if they knew who......oh wait they do.
Bet that grass will be dead.

Go crawl back under your rock.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

B19 Wrote:

I don't care about FLOPS the company. I do care though about those that are not informed that have made the mistake of their career by voting in a union that can ruin the fractional industry.

I think someone ought to send a memo to the 3000 pilots at Netjets their career is ruined. Quick, get out while you can! There's still hope for you guys. MESA is hiring.

Look at how the FLOPS process is going. Pretty horrible, eh? Is it really better now that a union is involved? Not by the posts on this board, thats for sure...

Is the 1108 trying to put the company in ruins so there are no dues to be paid? That must be it. Damn B19, I had you all wrong. U iz so smat.

Oh, and let's not use NJ as an example, they have a contract but it hasn't really been proven to be successful yet. A couple of quick profitable quarters doesn't mean it will be the end all, the same thing happened to United and Delta back in 1999 and 2000 and we all know how that industry leading contract ended.

Why can't we use them as an example? They're only the WORLDS largest fractional. How ignorant would that be to use them as an example.

The fractional industry really started in February of 2005 when the new rules went into place. Two years hardly provides enough data to show that it will work.

Now we know you off your meds. :nuts: Started in 2005!? The only thing that happened that year was they signed in a new contract. An update to one that had already been in place years prior. Oh what happened next? They suffered so hard after making all the money. (company and pilots) sniff sniff poor guys.

-----------------------------------------------
http://www.fractionaljetownership.com/content/history.html

The History of Fractional Jet Ownership
Fractional Jet Ownership is generally acknowledged to have gotten its big push in 1964 with the involvement of well known and respected individuals prominent in aviation circles including General Curtis LeMay, General O.F. Lassiter, Arthur Godfrey and Jimmy Stewart. General Lassiter was the person who created a company which used U.S. Air Force principles in aircraft utilization and management.
In 1965 William P. Lear Jr. and General Paul Tibbets Jr. joined the company then known as Executive Jet Aviation. In 1986, a subsidiary known as NetJets was created.
Richard Santulli is considered the visionary who created the concept of selling fractional ownerships in business jets to companies and individuals who need some business jet transportation, but for whom neither charters nor ownership of a complete airplane fulfilled their needs. This program was begun in earnest in 1987 and the NetJets concept of fractional ownership was born.
In 1998, Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathway, Inc. bought the company for $725 million and is now a major backer of the company now known as Executive Jet. There are now other companies involved in various aspects of Fractional Jet Ownership using the concepts created by Mr. Santulli.
It is predicted that Fractional Jet Ownership and leasing will be the dominant form of ownership of business jets by companies or individuals.

 

[WabiSabi]

Look at how the FLOPS process is going. Pretty horrible, eh? Is it really better now that a union is involved? Not by the posts on this board, thats for sure...

Well BOB, if you would tell Michael, Sanjay, Shirely and F&H to just speed up negotiations, then it would be going much better, The only reason the process is "horrible" is because of management.

 

[GerryG]

Scab

I usually Ban people for using the SCAB word, but you my friend are on the list. Your lucky this pimp cane...never mind. What you did was wrong, and still is...so don't look to me for protection. Good Luck.

Well there you have it folks. B19, whoever he is, is a SCAB. Henceforth, I personally will not give his rantings any credence. He deserves only contempt.

“The scab is a traitor to his God, his mother, and his class”


Jack London

 

[B19 Flyer]

Richard Santulli is considered the visionary who created the concept of selling fractional ownerships in business jets to companies and individuals who need some business jet transportation, but for whom neither charters nor ownership of a complete airplane fulfilled their needs. This program was begun in earnest in 1987 and the NetJets concept of fractional ownership was born.
In 1998, Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathway, Inc. bought the company for $725 million and is now a major backer of the company now known as Executive Jet. There are now other companies involved in various aspects of Fractional Jet Ownership using the concepts created by Mr. Santulli.
It is predicted that Fractional Jet Ownership and leasing will be the dominant form of ownership of business jets by companies or individuals.

Until February of 2005, fractional ownership was a free-for all. The cost of implementing 91K regulations for a Part 91 operator is staggering.

Fractionals were "born" then, not before then. If it was a great business model, there would be more than 18 companies that hold management specifications.

The fractional model is unproven in it's current state and current regulatory atmosphere.

It is a NEW industry and yet to be proven.
________________________________________________

A change in the law governing the way fractional aircraft operations are run takes effect early next year and fractional customers--the owners of fractional shares in airplanes run by programs such as NetJets, FlexJet and Flight Options--will have to give serious consideration to the potential effect those changes could have on their use of the aircraft.

February 17, 2005 is the day "Part 91, Subpart K" takes effect for the major national programs. This rather peculiar name identifies the particular section of the Federal Aviation Regulations that governs fractional aircraft programs. The FARs are the rules the Federal Aviation Administration ("FAA") enacts to govern all aspects of public and private aviation in the United States. With the implementation of 91K looming, fractional customers will need to decide whether they want to accept the legal responsibility of "operational control" for every flight they take--and no one can say, at this point, what that responsibility might mean if an accident were to occur involving the owner's aircraft. More on that subject in a moment.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Chang...+the+new+'Operational+Control'...-a0126240797

 

[Fozzy]

What is your point SCAB?

 

[Fozzy]

Did I make a mistake? Was my info incorrect. Is he not a management tool and a scab? Because if I am wrong, I have some serious apologizing to do and few beers to buy!
I don't throw that word around lightly.
Buy you know what they say.
"If the shoe fits........."

 

[B19 Flyer]

Did I make a mistake? Was my info incorrect. Is he not a management tool and a scab? Because if I am wrong, I have some serious apologizing to do and few beers to buy!
I don't throw that word around lightly.
Buy you know what they say.
"If the shoe fits........."

That is true. If you go through my posts, I have clearly stated that I am no longer in management and that I've haven't flown for many years and never for a union carrier, thus I could have never crossed a picket line. I never worked for Eastern, but I did work for two major airlines, one of them a legacy carrier.

Furthermore, unions have redirected my career twice, and I will never believe that unions will help the industry or are needed in today's day and age.

My opinion has repeatedly been stated, "Be careful what you ask for." Two thirds of the FLOPS pilots asked for a union and they are living with the result. My hope is that all the other non-union fracs will look at what is happening and realize that it is traditional in the industry to go through this mess for as many as three years for the first CBA, and once it's settled expect the consistent turmoil throughout the rest of your career. (And hope the economy doesn't stumble!)

One last thing, I do work for an international carrier without a union. Without question, it is the best and and most secure carrier I've ever been with. It's proof positive that a union isn't needed to make a good living and feel secure in your job.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Did I make a mistake? "

To clarify my previous post... Yes, that is true. You made a mistake.

 

[B19 Flyer]

So how do you ban B19 for not making any sense? If he made a little sense fine, but he dosen't.

Because you are not fully informed, I understand why it doesn't make sense to you. There are many that have been screwed over by unions that what I say makes perfect sense.

You would simply prefer the union to speak for you and accept the terms of the MEC rather than take responsibility for your own career.


That makes sense to me.

 

[WabiSabi]

Because you are not fully informed, I understand why it doesn't make sense to you. There are many that have been screwed over by unions that what I say makes perfect sense.

You would simply prefer the union to speak for you and accept the terms of the MEC rather than take responsibility for your own career.


That makes sense to me.

Dear BOB TYLER, Quit patting yourself on the back for your vacuous and mindless anti union drivel. You are under the delusion that your points have merit. Every one of them has be debunked and many in several different ways. Yet, you keep repeating them in every Groundhog Day after Groundhog Day post. You're stupid enough to congratulate yourself as some anti union crusader but, your arguments are just lame. You're the bane of the industry......scab.

 

[fischman]

Because you are not fully informed, I understand why it doesn't make sense to you. There are many that have been screwed over by unions that what I say makes perfect sense.

You would simply prefer the union to speak for you and accept the terms of the MEC rather than take responsibility for your own career.


That makes sense to me.

Wabi is not the only one who is not fully informed.

I have asked you repeatedly to do your homework on fracs, 1108, and especially NJA. Your inaccuracies make you look like a fool, and annoy everyone else.

Missing the start date of the fractional industry by 41 years is an example.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

What a moron!

So, which statement is the lie? This...

Until February of 2005, fractional ownership was a free-for all. The cost of implementing 91K regulations for a Part 91 operator is staggering.

HaaaHaaaa! Or this...

Fractionals were "born" then, not before then. If it was a great business model, there would be more than 18 companies that hold management specifications.

________________________________________________

Were fractionals a "free for all" before they were "born"? You're funny!

My take is that all your posts are lies. You are a joke.

 

[400pilot]

My thoughts.....

B19, you are either refusing to, or are completely incapable of understanding a few basic things here. For example, take these quotes from your posts....

Furthermore, unions have redirected my career twice, and I will never believe that unions will help the industry or are needed in today's day and age.

OK, fine. How many pilots careers have been "redirected" because of bad management? Based on what I have seen and heard while working in this industry, a whole lot more than those who have been negatively affected by unions. Does this mean that all management is bad? Of course it doesn't. Just because you had bad experiences with unions doesn't mean they are all bad or are not needed.

Two thirds of the FLOPS pilots asked for a union and they are living with the result.

Yes, we are living with the "result". However, it is not the union (ie. the pilots) who are creating this "result". It is our management who is doing everything they can to make this process long and miserable. We are just rolling with it because that's all we can do, for now.

It's proof positive that a union isn't needed to make a good living and feel secure in your job.

I haven't talked to anyone here who thinks that unions are always needed. Options/RTA has not always needed a union. We certainly need one now. I'm glad that your company doesn't need one. Well-managed companies generally do not.

However, this company is not well-managed. Personally, I understand exactly what MS and Co. have been doing here. There are so many better and proven ways to reach the same result. Until recently, I have never seen such Mickey Mouse BS actions and practices come from a group of so called management professionals. I have witnessed first hand their intimidation tactics. I have personally heard (from their mouths) completely illogical and misleading practices, designed that way for only one logical reason. The examples go on.

I will not go into further detail because I don't want to be identified. If identified, I will most certainly be brought to CGF to talk about my "attitude" and probably be dismissed just for this one post. Hogwash, you say? Unfortunately, it is not. This is an example of what they have been doing.