Frustrated : about some CFIs, TSA, dumb people

[FlyingToIST]

I have been a Part 61 operator for some time and I cannot believe some of the things I see in my last 6 months of experience:

- CFIs.. I am not an old fart but some of the CFIs I interviewed are plane dumb! No matter where they come from, they lack communication skills, inability to fly a single engine aircraft (A Piper Warrior) but if you ask them they are the best pilot since Chuck Yeager.. One I interview was +/-300 feet in the pattern in a Warrior.. This guy had 190 hrs of Seminole time.. Another was a graduate of a school with G430s and didn't want to fly an aircraft with a KX170B. None of them heard about the rule of TSA security training that they had to complete by January of this year. I guess their "big shot" schools didn't care except the $$$.

- TSA : I have a permanent resident CFI candidate that needs to start training. AOPA's website doesnt list "flight instructor" for trainings that a candidate has to go for TSA security clearence. I called TSA 3 times and they couldn't give a straight answer. AOPA says "Well, we can't get you a clear cut answer, but why don't you apply for him any way"..

- TSA (2) : I have a PPL candidate with F-1 and since April 12th his case is "pending" .. How is that for the "feel good, create government jobs and invent more paper work" measures..

- Dumb people : Had some dumbos show up the other day. They wanted to buy an airplane and "commute" between PacNW and TN every week. Their budget was a whopping $150,000.. When they found out that they needed to spend 13 hrs in the air with that kind of money their response was "I can drive there in 2 days" .. Well, have you ever heard of this thing called airlines ?


Anyways.. Just wanted to get off my chest..

 

[mattpilot]

good stuff


FYI:

- TSA (2) : I have a PPL candidate with F-1 and since April 12th his case is "pending" .. How is that for the "feel good, create government jobs and invent more paper work" measures..

You can start training on this guy as soon as you send in his picture (& other shat like fingerprints) after he arrives at your place. You don't need to wait for varification. If something is wrong, they will call you to tell you to stop training.

 

[FN FAL]

Not flying related and I understand your frustration...garunteed you'll run into more frustrations while flying.

Yesterday, the wife and I were doing some shooting at a municipal shooting range. We did most of our work at the pistol section. Which is within 50 yards of and parallels the rifle section. For the most part, we had the range all to our selves.

I had a 22 caliber pistol with silencer that needed to get it's new aimpoint scope sighted in. Plus, I wanted to test a new barrel and racheting top cover that I installed in a 9mm submachine gun. After going through 500 or so rounds of 9mm, we took out the cleaning gear and hosed the guns down and proceeded over to the rifle section to test fire a Russian SKS that I bought last winter.

We set up a target at 25 yards...just to see if the rifle was close to being sighted in fresh out of the box. By then, some guys had appeared and were setting up rifles on the far right side of the rifle tables. No big deal...I go over and chat with them, to get things on the same page. They are cool, I'm cool...we're on the same page.

We do a little rifle shooting and some kids show up...4 boys and 5 girls...about 21 years old. Now things change...there seems to be a lack of responsibility going on. Lots of gigling, no range discipline and these jerks whip out a shotgun and start lobbing clay pidgeons by hand.

I have had enough, so I clear my SKS and run a brush and swab through the bore. Pack up and start to leave. As we back our car away from the rifle tables, my wife says that one of kids swung the shotgun in my direction after a clay pidgeon went up like a frisbee and curved towards my rifle table.

I'm like "WHAT!??" So I stop the car and I ask my wife this again and she tells me that the fat kid swung the shotgun 90 degrees from the shooting lanes and in my direction, following a clay pidgeon and she said they all laughed about it.

I didn't see it happen, but my wife saw it. So I'm thinking, what do I do about this epochal stupidity?...confront some punks that have a shotgun, call the police, leave? We start to leave and I just can't let it go. I'm thinking that these jerkasses need something to think about...but I don't know what.

If I had a cell phone, I'd have probably called the police, but I ain't starting a scrap on a shooting range and I ain't about to force a situation with these punks because, it could all go south pretty quickly and "they" would have been the victims.

I think I know what I'm going to do in the future...I'll keep a couple of "spare" clay pidgeons in the gear box. If something like this happens in the future, I'm just going to have the wife toss a pidgeon in their direction an see how they like it when I swing the Remington 1100 12 gauge in their direction.

I know it's not flying related, but had one of their shotgun BB's hit me, I could be out of a medical and out of a flying job...plus, these punks are about the age of the punks you mentioned in your story.

 

[Immelman]

fn fal,

That is pretty nuts. I shoot at a private range/sportsman's park and one good thing is that you are required as a member to report any behavior like that. As a normal member all one can do is contact the management by phone and let them know who it was (everyone has to wear their range nametag), or if its an outright dangerous situation, call the cops.

Members who volounteer to be range safety officers may approach such behavior and ask the person to leave, but nothing more... the basic idea is that there is no confrontation; if they don't want to leave or change their behavior it is turned over to the police.

...end of thread hijack...

 

[Goose Egg]

...some of the CFIs I interviewed are plane dumb! No matter where they come from, they lack communication skills, inability to fly a single engine aircraft (A Piper Warrior) but if you ask them they are the best pilot since Chuck Yeager.. One I interview was +/-300 feet in the pattern in a Warrior.. This guy had 190 hrs of Seminole time.. Another was a graduate of a school with G430s and didn't want to fly an aircraft with a KX170B. None of them heard about the rule of TSA security training that they had to complete by January of this year. I guess their "big shot" schools didn't care except the $$$.

That's the truth! I'm even a CFI and I see that type of stuff happening in my own ranks. I guess flying isn't truck driving after all.

They wanted to buy an airplane and "commute" between PacNW and TN every week. Their budget was a whopping $150,000.. When they found out that they needed to spend 13 hrs in the air with that kind of money their response was "I can drive there in 2 days" .. Well, have you ever heard of this thing called airlines?

Here's yer sign.


-Goose

 

[NuGuy]

CFIs.. I am not an old fart but some of the CFIs I interviewed are plane dumb! No matter where they come from, they lack communication skills, inability to fly a single engine aircraft (A Piper Warrior) but if you ask them they are the best pilot since Chuck Yeager.. One I interview was +/-300 feet in the pattern in a Warrior.. This guy had 190 hrs of Seminole time.. Another was a graduate of a school with G430s and didn't want to fly an aircraft with a KX170B. None of them heard about the rule of TSA security training that they had to complete by January of this year. I guess their "big shot" schools didn't care except the $$$...

Heyas Flying,

AOPA's Instructor newsletter a few months ago had a article (front page) on this very thing, about a Chief CFI doing interviewing for his small school. He couldn't believe what he was seeing. Interesting reading...

Nu

 

[Goose Egg]

Heyas Flying,

AOPA's Instructor newsletter a few months ago had a article (front page) on this very thing, about a Chief CFI doing interviewing for his small school. He couldn't believe what he was seeing. Interesting reading...

Nu

As an aside, I definitely wasn't prepared to start teaching when I got my CFI. It was sort of a "baptism by fire" but eventually I got up to speed. But then again, I could do a lot better than +/- 300' in the pattern.

-Goose

 

[FN FAL]

fn fal,

That is pretty nuts...

...end of thread hijack...

Thanks for the info...I just don't want to see the range shut down, get arrested in an altercation or see anyone harmed by negligent actors. Here is where having a cell phone could have saved the day.

Also...no thread hijack. If you look carefully at his original post title, it says "Frustrated:....stupid people".

If need be, I can list a flying reference.

Flying Reference: Clay pidgeons have camber and when moving through the air, they generate lift.

 

[Cardinal]

As an aside, I definitely wasn't prepared to start teaching when I got my CFI. It was sort of a "baptism by fire" but eventually I got up to speed. But then again, I could do a lot better than +/- 300' in the pattern.

I was in the same boat. Yet the boneheaded types that AOPA instructor newsletter mentioned don't necessarily improve with time. People don't seem to grasp that giving poor flight instruction is the most statistically sure way to kill somebody down the road. Those that have substituted bravado for skills can be found in the newhire ranks at the regionals, and it's just as irritating.

A sure way to identify a mediocre aviator: If they ever utter the words "when I was in flight school." It's like they went to UPT or something, gimme a break.

 

[semperfido]

Yesterday, the wife and I were doing some shooting at a municipal shooting range.

public ranges seem to be a lot like public golf courses. you can get a lot of yawhoos.

as far as cfi goes- it is just a license to learn.-- unless you are an old fart

 

[check6]

I can guarantee any CFI will have a tough time starting out. Once they get cookin' though, look out. I was TERRIBLE when I started, but I'm getting better. I've finished off 3 people that came to me half way through their training. It's an accomplishment for not just my students, but myself. Even filling out the IACRA form takes some trial and error!! They may not have the experience, but the quality of training THEY received will show through. I went to a big name flight school and compared to where I teach now, the quality of the pilots at the big aviation school are trained in a very professional manner compared to the smaller FBO training. The habits I have learned are now being passed on.

 

[Goose Egg]

I can guarantee any CFI will have a tough time starting out.

That's the truth. Being able to pass the checkride and actually being able to teach are two separate things. It's a shame that the PTS requirements aren't a little more pertinant to real-world instructing.

-Goose

 

[FlyingToIST]

I never said that a CFI with wet ink on his logbook from his checkride should be in a level as a Master instructor. There are certain things that I look for on the other hand.. Using their judgement is one of them..

I think with all these "Accelerated" programs, and "let's get to 300 hrs" type opf training they are becoming monkeys that they know what to do in one type of aircraft.. My CFI interview was on a Cardinal which I never flew before.. I never said "I want G430s".. It was different that the C172s I flew, but I was able to teach a steep turn like it was a C172, or Pa28..because the concept is the same..

Anyway, I wanted to get off my chest as i said.. I found this young kid with great personality and he is holding two jobs.. My gut feeling tells me that he is going to be great instructor after 300 hrs of dual given..

 

[Metro752]

+/-300 in the pattern is horrendous

Where was the range safety officer? When I go shooting, you couldn't do stupid stuff like that or you'd have 2-3 crazy old coots breathing down your neck recommending you follow the rules or leave.

Can't believe you let them get away with pointing it at you. What happens when they show up again, and possibly drunk, and shoot somebody? Completely wreckless. Did they even have ear and eye protection?

 

[FlyChicaga]

The stupidity doesn't end as they surpasse the CFI stage. It just transfers into a new stage of flying!