Frontier upgrade times?

[Spicepilots]

Just wondering if anyone knows what the upgrade time looks like over at Frontier? I would have to guess that it goes pretty senior but just wondering what the facts really are.

 

[F9 A319]

Just wondering if anyone knows what the upgrade time looks like over at Frontier? I would have to guess that it goes pretty senior but just wondering what the facts really are.

If you can find anyone (including management) that will answer that question, run away from them. It is impossible to predict right now.

Early on it was 6 months to a year. A while ago we had displaced Captains for around a year and Reserves lasted around 2 years. Now guys are spending a month on reserve then holding a line.

I would be alot easier if anyone knew what was going to happen next...

 

[OpenClimb]

Just wondering if anyone knows what the upgrade time looks like over at Frontier? I would have to guess that it goes pretty senior but just wondering what the facts really are.

I looked back through the Chief Pilot's Memos and as near as I can tell the most junior upgrade candidate was hired in October of 2002. The Memo showed a projected training start date of June 14, 2006.

Of course all the standard disclaimers apply. These upgrades speak to what's going on now and what's gone on in the last few years... They're not necessarily a good predictor of what'll happen in the next 6 months, much less the next 5 years.

Hope this helps.

 

[starchkr]

Personal perspective...I really don't care how long it takes to get to the left seat, i am where i wanted to end up for a career and that is all that matters. I would think that if you wanted to use this path(F9) to move up quickly to get some PIC time to move on then you are going about this career the wrong way(i'm not saying you are, i'm just trying to make a point). This is a last stop airline, you come here to finish your career, if you want a quick upgrade then some other avenue is the way to go...ok, so this sounds like i am pokin' at you here(hey no funny comments there guys), but in reality i am just saying that once you get here you no longer care about things like flight times, upgrade times etc etc etc...this is a wonderful place to be, and i couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

And to answer the original question...i really have no clue what the upgrade times are like right now.

 

[Shrek]

YEAH.......what he said -

You beat me to it Starchkr.....lol

 

[HalinTexas]

Personal perspective...I really don't care how long it takes to get to the left seat, i am where i wanted to end up for a career and that is all that matters. I would think that if you wanted to use this path(F9) to move up quickly to get some PIC time to move on then you are going about this career the wrong way(i'm not saying you are, i'm just trying to make a point). This is a last stop airline, you come here to finish your career, if you want a quick upgrade then some other avenue is the way to go...ok, so this sounds like i am pokin' at you here(hey no funny comments there guys), but in reality i am just saying that once you get here you no longer care about things like flight times, upgrade times etc etc etc...this is a wonderful place to be, and i couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

And to answer the original question...i really have no clue what the upgrade times are like right now.

How naive.

 

[m80drvr]

Personal perspective...I really don't care how long it takes to get to the left seat, i am where i wanted to end up for a career and that is all that matters. I would think that if you wanted to use this path(F9) to move up quickly to get some PIC time to move on then you are going about this career the wrong way(i'm not saying you are, i'm just trying to make a point). This is a last stop airline, you come here to finish your career, if you want a quick upgrade then some other avenue is the way to go...ok, so this sounds like i am pokin' at you here(hey no funny comments there guys), but in reality i am just saying that once you get here you no longer care about things like flight times, upgrade times etc etc etc...this is a wonderful place to be, and i couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

And to answer the original question...i really have no clue what the upgrade times are like right now.

dam* dude step away from the coolaid. Upgrade is everything and your "Last stop airline comment oozes ignorance enlight of current airline dynamics.

Who the hell knows what will happen, consolidation is in the air and at 70+ bucks for oil, not all will survive.

Frontier is a great niche carrier and hopefully will last a long time but if consolidation comes knocking you better hope you have 4 stripes. Ask any usair FO if upgrade is important, After 18 or so years yanking gear I'm sure you will get some interesting responses.

D

PS yes I know AAA is not Frontier BUT it could happen to all of us. I my case it has happened twice.

 

[propjob27]

i am just saying that once you get here you no longer care about things like flight times, upgrade times etc etc etc...this is a wonderful place to be, and i couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

Bulls hit. They guy has every right to ask and to care about upgrade times, for several reasons.

One, Have you seen the FO payscale?

Two, like some other people have said, who knows what will happen to this industry in 5 years?? Depending on the original posters age, he has every reason to want an additonal type and PIC Jet in his pocket. Unfortunately, virutally no one out there is immune to possible furloughs, not to mention pay and work rule concessions. It is definately not unreasonable to want that quick upgrade and PIC experience in case something ugly happens at Frontier. If FedEX, Southwest, and Continental are still hiring at that point, he would be more competitive with captain time than w/o.

I'm not saying Frontier is not a wonderful place to be, but his question is definately legit.

 

[SuperLoser121]

Pay Scale?

"One, Have you seen the FO payscale?"

If you check the FO pay scales at F9 versus the other carriers that are actually hiring right now you will find they are equal to or better than most. Allow me to provide a link so you may seek further personal enlightenment.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/airlines/airlines-2005030344.htm

Just click on Frontier and then compare a few other airlines. I'm not saying don't look forward to an upgrade and PIC type, these days if an airline goes bye-bye, having the type can give you an edge over the other guy. It just seems to me that too many in this industry are saying that they will put up with substandard pay and workrules to get a quick upgrade so they can move on. Nowadays the question is becoming, move on to where?

Good Day!

 

[Southbound]

This is in no way meant to start anything other than intelligent conversation. I think F9 is a fine company for which to work, I have several good buddies who love working there but all the optomism seems a bit unrealistic. Is it too good to be true? I realize most who work there seem to love it. A very important intangible.
I wonder how all of you F9 faithfull can be so confident considering the stock markets distaste for F9 and it's inability to turn a profit since 2004. What is the word from you management on how they are going to address the current sh:t storm in the airline industry. I would love to work there and am looking for a good salesman. I realize some will say if you don't love the place then don't apply but it is a serious question. What do Jeff and the rest of the big shots plan to do to ensure all F9 pilots can retire with that walrus on the tail?

 

[AnimalTale]

No gaurantees in this industry! As far as Captain upgrades at F9----> right now it is 3-4 years, tomorrow it could be 20 years.

On the same token at my previous carrier (legacy), we where told we could expect to be CAPTAINs within 4 years of our hiring (2000) and that we could expect a PENSION worth a couple million bucks. Do you see how that panned out?

Many would be rightfully PISSED off but I can tell you as long as you know you have no guarantees in this industry and you do have a back up plan, you should be fine.

Starckr is right too. F9 is a great place to be and I hope I can one day retire from here. I wont sell you, this is my 6th airline and by far the BEST place Ihave been. Sure, we do have our problems and WALL STREET hates us, but you know what, I think this "little" Airline is diligent and on path to hopefully a BRIGHT future.

Cya

 

[D-Bo]

This is a last stop airline, you come here to finish your career

Wow! A last stop airline in this industry does not exist. I've got buddies at FedEX and Southwest that aren't even naive enough to make a comment like that. You must not know much about the history of this industry if you truly believe what you wrote. You never know what's going to happen. That post of yours is UNBELIEVABLE! And then to tell a guy basically if he's worried about the upgrade time that he may want to look at some other avenue/airline? Who the FCUK do you think you are? I truly can't believe you wrote that crap.

 

[AnimalTale]

Wow! A last stop airline in this industry does not exist. I've got buddies at FedEX and Southwest that aren't even naive enough to make a comment like that. You must not know much about the history of this industry if you truly believe what you wrote. You never know what's going to happen. That post of yours is UNBELIEVABLE! And then to tell a guy basically if he's worried about the upgrade time that he may want to look at some other avenue/airline? Who the FCUK do you think you are? I truly can't believe you wrote that crap.

Let him enjoy his new career, and hopefully he is right! There is too much doom and gloom in this industry and we all know this industry is very fragile. It is good to have a little optimism with out being arrogant.

After all we are all in the same boat. Once we realize this maybe the downward spiral will STOP and move the other way

Cya

 

[D-Bo]

Let him enjoy his new career, and hopefully he is right! There is too much doom and gloom in this industry and we all know this industry is very fragile. It is good to have a little optimism with out being arrogant.

After all we are all in the same boat. Once we realize this maybe the downward spiral will STOP and move the other way

Cya

He can enjoy his new company without being naive. And he can enjoy his company without being an arrogant a-hole to the point to where he can tell a guy interested in Frontier that Frontier might not be the right avenue for him if he's interested in upgrade time. What? Is he in management already? Is he conducting interviews or selecting candidates?

Anyway, one could have a strong argument that his attitude is the kind that perpetuates the downward spiral that this industry is in. But that's a whole thread in itself. Anyway, most of us know that the industry is fragile. I'm guessing he doesn't. He is not doing himself any favors by having that attitude.

 

[AnimalTale]

He can enjoy his new company without being naive. And he can enjoy his company without being an arrogant a-hole to the point to where he can tell a guy interested in Frontier that Frontier might not be the right avenue for him if he's interested in upgrade time. What? Is he in management already? Is he conducting interviews or selecting candidates?

Anyway, one could have a strong argument that his attitude is the kind that perpetuates the downward spiral that this industry is in. But that's a whole thread in itself. Anyway, most of us know that the industry is fragile. I'm guessing he doesn't. He is not doing himself any favors by having that attitude.

After re-reading his post I come to the conclusion that starchr is only voicing HIS opinion and he is truly motivated and happy to be a pilot at F9.

Let him enjoy! I hope he never does need another job, but in the worst case scenerio (2 furloughs for me) his good attitude will LAND him another job..IMHO

Cya

 

[homebrew]

Geez guys. I for one loved his post. It is refreshing to hear a guy excited about the airline he flies for. Nowhere in his post did he say he was not aware of the nature of this industry. What he did say is that he is going to retire there. I think it is safe to say that he understands that if his airline does not survive that he won't retire there. He was simply stating that as long as his airline is around he will fly for them, be happy, and retire. Back off.

You know, the ones who speak out so violently to this guy can only drudge up hatred most likely because they are not happy with their airline, or can only sit around all day and think of gloom and doom. Although I believe someone has every right to ask about upgrade time, if that is your biggest reason to work for that company, I question if that is the right reason. We all want to upgrade obviously for the pay and type, but like he said, if you are where you want to be then it really doesn't matter. You can't control it anyways and it isn't the main reason you are there. Some here just refuse to accept that some feel that way.

 

[ironspud]

Frontier is a great niche carrier and hopefully will last a long time but if consolidation comes knocking you better hope you have 4 stripes. quote]

Trust me. 4 stripes get's you nothing. You'll just be declared to be an "illegitimate captain". Then put on the street.

 

[M3pilot]

Let a guy dream, sheesh! Don't we all? Isn't that what led us all to where we are?

M3

 

[Shrek]

It is rare in this industry that a pilot is actually happy and content with a career choice. I hope everybody gets a chance to fly at their ultimate job of choice.

Maybe some of you have to see the "glass half full" for a change..........if not the stress could hurt your medical in the long run. He is a great guy and is not ignorant to the current state of the industry, but to bash a guy because he believes in a philosophy of having that "last" airline job is just sour grapes on your part.

To have the attitude that was so prevalent in the past shows his character and enthusiasm for the job - not a contributor to the "downward spiral" of the industry. NOW THAT is another conversation entirely.

 

[jbDC9]

...step away from the coolaid. Upgrade is everything...

Uhhh, no it's not. Some people actually might consider quality of life issues rather than the quickest upgrade. I'm at CAL ('97 hire and actually like it here) and could've held a EWR 737 capt bid a year ago. I passed on it for one main reason; I live in IAH and wouldn't move to the EWR area, so I'd have to be pretty much insane to commute from hub to hub to be a bottom feeder rsv capt and be scheduling's bitch for the next few years with virtually no days off once the commute time is added in. Some guys rag on living in Houston, but for me it ain't bad... I'm in the 'burbs building an RV-8 and riding my CBR on my days off. It's really a pretty decent gig as a relatively "senior" FO and having a good number of days off. For me, right now, days off are everything, not the upgrade. Perhaps in another year I could hold IAH capt... to sit rsv at home might not be so bad.

But, I suspect some people might go for the quickest upgrade to be abused by scheduling and beat up by the commute just so they can have something to complain about; it's seems there are a few on here that just live to whine...