Frontier Point to Point Service

ip241au

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Seems like Frontier is routing a significant number of flights through MKE. Any idea how many flights have been dropped post-Republic? Den-Lga for instance is down to one non-stop, other flights go through MKE.
 

Mike man

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I may be wrong, but it is still pre-Republic...I think they may need a few more days to bring the operation under one roof, so to speak.
 

Cardinal

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An extensive codeshare agreement is being implemented, just seeing an F9 or YX code in the schedules does not necessarily mean it's a Frontier or Midwest family aircraft.
 

Minimaniac

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There will be a good number of "synergies" achieved through code share as time goes on. I feel confident that those Airbus flights will be flown by Frontier pilots in Frontier painted aircraft. The 190's will be operated by Republic certificate (only a part of the RAH conglomerate), with the first 12 aircraft, at least, being in Midwest colors, even if they are flying through Denver.

In the end, one brand will go away, but a lot of behind the scenes work needs to happen first. Also, by putting Midwest passengers on F9 Airbuses out of MKE, Midwest passengers will get to experience the Frontier product, which I think they will find to be an acceptable replacement to the Midwest product of the last 18 months. Once Midwest-loyal passengers are acclimated to and accepting of Frontier, the change over will begin and the Midwest brand will be shelved. I also predict that Frontier will serve cookies within a year.

As for point to point service in general, I think RAH overall has the aircraft that would make less hub-oriented routings more profitable. Southwest has proven that point to point is still viable, and RAH can practically access markets that may not offer good returns if a 737 was utilized.
 

Cardinal

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Nearly useless fact: They threatened to pull the ovens out of the Airbii last summer, but never got around to it. Dual ovens still installed.
 

Indy319FA

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I also predict that Frontier will serve cookies within a year.
I don't think so. The cookies don't produce any revenue, and are a pain to get loaded in the galleys. The only thing that will be kept, IMO, are the buy on board meals, and the ovens will be used for the meals that are heated. We aren't heating meals yet, but I expect this will happen in the future. The Frontier buy on board meals look kind of lame compared to the Midwest meals.

I expect to see the Midwest brand slowly fade away, and anything that costs money without producing revenue, such as the cookies, will fade away as well.
 

Cardinal

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So if I read between the lines of your post, the rumors about Republic FAs b!tching about the crushing burden of serving cookies are indeed true. Midwest has impressive brand loyalty, despite what Hoeky has put the customer through. In no small part because of the cookies. Brand loyalty is one of the very few things that can command a minor revenue premium in this environment. The easiest way to get trounced by the MKE invaders is to make oursleves indistinguishable from them. If competing on CASM alone, bringing a smaller airplane is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. The gimmick is necessary.
 
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Indy319FA

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So if I read between the lines of your post, the rumors about Republic FAs b!tching about the crushing burden of serving cookies are indeed true. Midwest has impressive brand loyalty, despite what Hoeky has put the customer through. In no small part because of the cookies. Brand loyalty is one of the very few things that can command a minor revenue premium in this environment. The easiest way to get trounced by the MKE invaders is to make oursleves indistinguishable from them. If competing on CASM alone, bringing a smaller airplane is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. The gimmick is necessary.
Cookies aren't a problem. Some have complained, but most have adjusted. Republic has a history of serious cost containment, and I don't see them continuing with something that costs a lot of $$$ with no return. One big hint is the Chautauqua 135s are not going to have ovens for the cookies like the Skywest CRJs they are replacing. Right now the emphasis is on selling onboard meals and other items that produce more revenue. We've been hearing that hot meals are coming pretty soon on the Republic Aircraft. This deal is about more than MKE. MKE is important, but Bedford has bigger plans in mind for this deal. Bottom line is passengers look for the lowest fare, cookies be damned. The cost cuts have already started in MKE, and I expect there will be more.
 

johnsonrod

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I hope you guys eventually keep the animals and ditch the boring blue paint scheme... Midwest is a lame name for a "national" airline (just one section of the country) on an ongoing basis. Frontier works a lot better and it is reminiscent of the "old school" Frontier brand of the 70s and 80s that I enjoyed as a kid. Just my $0.02.
 
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ABC123

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No the 135's do not have ovens for the cookies, but yet cookies are still served.

The cookies are a YX trademark, and I do not think Mr. Bedford is dumb enough to do away with that trademark.

The load factors on the YX system are good, even on the 135's.

What is going to harm the YX system is the Repulic Airways Holding Employees, who do not realize that the YX passengers are NOW PAYING OUR SALARY, we are not under contract, we are not payed per flight segment, the revenue from the tickets the passengers buy, is now the main source of income.

I am a Republic Employee, and it saddens me, the YX staff with 20 to 25 years with the company, who know how the airline works are being let go, and replaced with people who have no idea how a airline runs or any factor to good customer service

When I started in the airline industry 23 years ago has a ramp agent, we still had a customer service training course, when I became a dispatcher, we were trained a day in good customer service, and this was at OH and TW, and that 18 years ago. At Republic not a single thing said to us about Customer Service.

There that is my 2 cents worth
 

Yuppyguppy

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There will be a good number of "synergies" achieved through code share as time goes on. I feel confident that those Airbus flights will be flown by Frontier pilots in Frontier painted aircraft. The 190's will be operated by Republic certificate (only a part of the RAH conglomerate), with the first 12 aircraft, at least, being in Midwest colors, even if they are flying through Denver.

In the end, one brand will go away, but a lot of behind the scenes work needs to happen first. Also, by putting Midwest passengers on F9 Airbuses out of MKE, Midwest passengers will get to experience the Frontier product, which I think they will find to be an acceptable replacement to the Midwest product of the last 18 months. Once Midwest-loyal passengers are acclimated to and accepting of Frontier, the change over will begin and the Midwest brand will be shelved. I also predict that Frontier will serve cookies within a year.

As for point to point service in general, I think RAH overall has the aircraft that would make less hub-oriented routings more profitable. Southwest has proven that point to point is still viable, and RAH can practically access markets that may not offer good returns if a 737 was utilized.

Spoken like a true expert
 

Indy319FA

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I am a Republic Employee, and it saddens me, the YX staff with 20 to 25 years with the company, who know how the airline works are being let go, and replaced with people who have no idea how a airline runs or any factor to good customer service
I agree. I had hoped to see some of the YX folks with experience retained and placed in charge of some of Republics operations. What I am seeing is the same environment that has always existed at Republic, hence my comments that things that cost money (like cookies) will not survive RAH cost cutting measures.

I think you will also see 170 aircraft migrating to Denver, and Airbus aircraft migrating to MKE. Ultimately whatever company emerges from all this will resemble Frontier more than Midwest, IMO.
 

S40Sailor

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Spoken like a true expert
He forgot to factor the 37$ hr max pay rate in his analysis, It's funny how those pucks are now so proud of that S@@@t hole they create.
Damn Southwest guys they could have taken that cancer out before it spread..
 

Minimaniac

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He forgot to factor the 37$ hr max pay rate in his analysis, It's funny how those pucks are now so proud of that S@@@t hole they create.
Damn Southwest guys they could have taken that cancer out before it spread..
Yup. Single seniority list from Caravan through Airbus, with no outsourced flying. What an evil and cancerous concept. You may point to the pay (of an "expired" contract), but you overlook the successful killing of an alter-ego airline, and you overlook scope that keeps all flying in house and all pilots on one list, with no aircraft too small to be included. Personally, I would rather build my future upon a contract with great scope and work to improve pay than build my future on a contract with great pay and loose scope.

And before you call me a hypocrite because I fly scoped out airplanes, let me remind you that mainline pilots gave me this job, and I could not have interviewed at a major airline with the low hiring numbers and high turbine PIC requirements of the past 8 years.

I am willing to put in the work to improve this place. And I am glad that our scope gives me the security of knowing that my company can't replace or outsource my job. It amazes me how critical everyone is of RAH when we are one of the few airlines that has solid scope that has never been conceded.
 

S40Sailor

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Yup. Single seniority list from Caravan through Airbus, with no outsourced flying. What an evil and cancerous concept. You may point to the pay (of an "expired" contract), but you overlook the successful killing of an alter-ego airline, and you overlook scope that keeps all flying in house and all pilots on one list, with no aircraft too small to be included. Personally, I would rather build my future upon a contract with great scope and work to improve pay than build my future on a contract with great pay and loose scope.

And before you call me a hypocrite because I fly scoped out airplanes, let me remind you that mainline pilots gave me this job, and I could not have interviewed at a major airline with the low hiring numbers and high turbine PIC requirements of the past 8 years.

I am willing to put in the work to improve this place. And I am glad that our scope gives me the security of knowing that my company can't replace or outsource my job. It amazes me how critical everyone is of RAH when we are one of the few airlines that has solid scope that has never been conceded.
Little Icarus those Jets got so Shiny that you got blind....
 

Minimaniac

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Little Icarus those Jets got so Shiny that you got blind....
Flying regional jets is just one step in my overall career. I checked off a lot of other boxes before I came here, and flew a variety of props along the way. I know you like to think that we regional pukes are all just drooling over the chance to fly a jet, but if you look at the number of part 121 turboprop positions vs. part 121 regional jet positions in the last 7 years, you will see that a substantial majority of part 121 entrants have to fly jets by default. There are simply far more jets than props in service at the regionals today, and where props are used, crews are generally utilized more efficiently, resulting in a smaller ratio of crews per airframe than for RJ's.

For example, you would need to add up the prop fleets of Colgan, Commutair, Great Lakes, Gulfstream, Horizon, Lynx, and Mesaba just to equal the size of the RAH jet fleet. I'm not boasting about fleet size here, I am just pointing out that the number of Part 121 props in this country is far less than regional jets. So blame my ego if it makes you feel good, but if you ever decide to use those reasoning skills that supposedly make you qualified to be a professional aviator, you will see that RJs are inevitable stops on the career path of this nation's newest professional pilots.
 

Full of LUV

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Omg....

Yup. Single seniority list from Caravan through Airbus, with no outsourced flying. What an evil and cancerous concept. You may point to the pay (of an "expired" contract), but you overlook the successful killing of an alter-ego airline, and you overlook scope that keeps all flying in house and all pilots on one list, with no aircraft too small to be included. Personally, I would rather build my future upon a contract with great scope and work to improve pay than build my future on a contract with great pay and loose scope.

And before you call me a hypocrite because I fly scoped out airplanes, let me remind you that mainline pilots gave me this job, and I could not have interviewed at a major airline with the low hiring numbers and high turbine PIC requirements of the past 8 years.

I am willing to put in the work to improve this place. And I am glad that our scope gives me the security of knowing that my company can't replace or outsource my job. It amazes me how critical everyone is of RAH when we are one of the few airlines that has solid scope that has never been conceded.
OK, now I have heard everything! Your company EXISTS due to Scope violations and loopholes. In fact most of it's revenue has been derrived through the exploitation of other peoples scope loopholes and contract violations. Now you are proud of a place that offers payrates that are a third of the company that they replaced? Are you gonna work hard for that 150% payrate increase? Or is Frontier just doomed to being told that they cost too much and need to come down to the rest of the groups rates? Amazing, I have heard everything now!
 

Minimaniac

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Or is Frontier just doomed to being told that they cost too much and need to come down to the rest of the groups rates?
Let's see, Bedford has publicly stated his desire to raise the current F9 Airbus rates by about 3%, and wants to keep their contract in place for three more years. So I am going to have to say that, no, Frontier will not be told to step in line.

And I don't know if I would call it "exploiting loopholes" in scope. When Delta pilots say "you may fly x number of 76 seat airplanes", and RAH then gets 76 seat airplanes, it seems like a straight forward business deal to me. And while I personally am not in favor of the entire Midwest fiasco, you need to ask yourself if any fewer jobs would have been lost had Republic not gotten involved. Midwest management lost those 717's to Boeing. There would still be 0 jobs remaining within a year had republic or anyone else not stepped in.
 

likeitis

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Let's see, Bedford has publicly stated his desire to raise the current F9 Airbus rates by about 3%, and wants to keep their contract in place for three more years. So I am going to have to say that, no, Frontier will not be told to step in line.

And I don't know if I would call it "exploiting loopholes" in scope. When Delta pilots say "you may fly x number of 76 seat airplanes", and RAH then gets 76 seat airplanes, it seems like a straight forward business deal to me. And while I personally am not in favor of the entire Midwest fiasco, you need to ask yourself if any fewer jobs would have been lost had Republic not gotten involved. Midwest management lost those 717's to Boeing. There would still be 0 jobs remaining within a year had republic or anyone else not stepped in.
You don't know any of this. Pure speculation. It's becoming more and more clear as more info leaks out that Bedford has been calling the shots at Midwest since summer 2008. He very well could be the one who hashed the plan of the 717's going back to Boeing. You guys are just Sergeant Schultz from Hogan's Heroes, "I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing!" How does it feel to wake up everyday knowing you were played to accelerate the race to the bottom. Not just lowering the bar but taking others jobs with not even a whimper or objection. It's nice to see IBT national now starting to distance themselves from your local. Wow it takes something to be an embarrassment to the Teamsters.
 
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