Frontier Pilots "What Do You Think?"

[Tristar]

I feel for you ATA guys. I always liked your airline and it was a shame it went out of business, however, your dealings at SWA were at a much different part of the BK process than the phase Frontier is currently in.

Frontier chose to file BK due to the credit card processor demanding 100% holdback due to the failure of carriers such as ATA and Aloha.

This was one of the major factors that put ATA into BK the first time. Granted, ATA did have other problems, but that as I recall that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

(In hindsight they would have probably had to file anyway last summer due to full exposure to $147/bbl oil). In any event, they have successfully reorganized and have become a super efficient operation with a cult-like following of loyal customers. They are profitable both from an operating standpoint and on a net basis. Being in bankruptcy (for them) at this point is expensive and provides no other benefit.

HP/TZ probably woulld have provided a similar outcome, and TZ did have a loyal customer base in our hometown. Unfortunately, we'll never know since WN blackmailed Boeing to kill the deal.

So at this juncture F9 is seeking a plan sponsor or "exit financing" (very much different than ther ATA scenerio). In a normal credit environment F9 would attract investment grade capital to achieve this goal, unfortunately for them, there isn't any. RAH has provided an offer to fund this exit plan. BK allows for better offers to be considered before approving the exit plan.

You are correct - we HAD the financing arranged until WN killed the deal.

Now enters SWA. They (SWA) do want to eliminate a competitor and want to prevent a tough competitor from becoming very healthy with a strong balance sheet. They look at F9 and see themselves 20 years ago and it probably scares them a bit, so why not nip it in the bud and just buy them. Remember, they didn't buy ATA nor did they bid on them in a similar process. The law requires that if a company buys more than 50 percent of the company they are required to take the labor. Its all or nothing. If not, Frontier will exit and compete vigorously with the other offer that is on the table. So, I see how you ATA guys can draw parallels but there really aren't any in a true business sense.

Trust me, we are all too familiar with that aspect. They want to eliminate a competitor and will stop at nothing to do so.

They didn't buy ATA initially. Since WN showed up late to the dance, they scuttled the HP/TZ deal. They then inserted John Dennison (who almost makes Lorenzo look like an honest man) to cherry pick ATA's best routes, leaving ATA with crap. Finally, when the manufactured collapse was complete, they bought the shell of the company to get the gates they wanted at LGA.

It's a different day, and a different victim. Hopefully for F9 guys the outcome will be better, but based on what I've heard on here and other forums from WN pilots, I wouldn't bet on it.

In retrospect, I wish we'd burned ATA to the ground during the first BK. It would have been better than the ongoing rape we were subjected to for the next 3+ years. Unfortunately, we trusted WN - and look where it got us.

 

[Capn Butthead]

Im sorry that ATA went away. I hate seeing people on the street.....I really do. Ive been there. I had friends at ATA and it sucked seeing them go....But WE DID NOT BUY ATA!!!!! We purchased gates, slots, and etc. Its apples and oranges...Maybe we could see the writing on the wall and knew that ATA was going to lose the contracts with the military and the overall loss of revenue. ATA going away also hurt us. Losing the Hawaii codeshare took a lot of revenue from us also. I hated to see them go. But, we did not buy you and we did not pursue any merger. It was never mentioned or brought up. The frontier thing is a different thing.

 

[Tristar]

Im sorry that ATA went away. I hate seeing people on the street.....I really do. Ive been there. I had friends at ATA and it sucked seeing them go....But WE DID NOT BUY ATA!!!!! We purchased gates, slots, and etc. Its apples and oranges...Maybe we could see the writing on the wall and knew that ATA was going to lose the contracts with the military and the overall loss of revenue. ATA going away also hurt us. Losing the Hawaii codeshare took a lot of revenue from us also. I hated to see them go. But, we did not buy you and we did not pursue any merger. It was never mentioned or brought up. The frontier thing is a different thing.

While there are certainly differences in the two proposals, you did in fact own 40% (if I recall correctly) of ATA at one point in time, which permitted the installation of John "Rot in Hell you swine" Dennison, which permitted the gradual dismantling of ATA, ad infinitum. Having our best routes cherry picked was the major cause of the loss of revenue. FedEx's stunt pushed it over the top.

I would hope that WN didn't know TZ was going to lose contracts with the military. If they did, that would certainly be some good info to add to our lawsuit against FedEx.