Frontier Pilots "What Do You Think?"

[Porch]

I personally think its an opportunity of a lifetime. I would welcome a staple and be very happy with it. Anything beyond that would be amazing, provided no one gets pissed off. As far as pay protection, I'm more than happy with that too. I feel like the luckiest guy in the world right now. I've interviewed at WN a while ago & didn't make it. I'm not saying that this scenario is the best way to get into WN, I would have rather been hired. I'm not complaining about anything, & hopeful things go down like we all think they will. I know the F9 pilots will be a great fit into WN. Were a pilot group that's not afraid to work hard and provide great customer service. Working for a Fortune 12 company amongst a compatible pilot group will create a thriving work environment.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I made $143,000 as a 4th year FO. I think swa will be a much better deal for you guys.

Just remember, we don't get paid by the hour, we get paid by the trip. I average about 115 to 120 trips per month.

Dick

 

[shagadelic]

Porch, we'd love to have you. Let's hope it all works out, and I look forward to flying with you out of DEN!

 

[The Victors]

Just remember, we don't get paid by the hour, we get paid by the trip. I average about 115 to 120 trips per month.

Dick

me too. Should have be more clear. I made that income as a 4th year SWA FO. I'm just spit balling here, but I think that's a little better than RAH is offering.

 

[Megalops]

I would gladly take a staple and pay protection (eight year captain), I have loved Frontier and have been very attached to it I wish things were different, love Denver even though I commute. My wife has been at SWA for 13 years and I am an AMA native, I have many many friends there (SWA) and hope things work out.

 

[mvedepo]

Southwest is going to operate A319/320's now? I would be surprised if they did. If they do not plan on operating the Bus then why would they take the F9 pilots? I have a lot of friends at F9 but I am afraid this isn't going to be pretty. ATA all over again.

 

[USMC319]

I've got an idea: From now on when anyone wants to bring up the SWA/ATA deal and compare it to the SWA/F9 deal, they must get a note from their lawyer that confirms they have been briefed and understand that there are almost no similarities in the two scenerios. Good? Ok.

SWA pilots; Don't let the posers on this board (Instructor Dude, numerous RAH pilots) succeed in stirring the pot. The F9 pilots and the SWA pilots are cut from the same cloth and share common attitudes and atributes. Most importantly, there is generally a mutual respect for one another. This could be a good deal for both sides going foward if executed properly.

Frontier pilots; Be respectful and let the process play out. You bring a lot to the table including near international operations, a profitable airline operation, a loyal customer base, and a great corporate culture that will meld well with the SWA group. Don't sell yourselves short but at the same time don't be greedy.

At the end of the day most F9 pilots would prefer to stay independent with non-airline investment capital, but absent that, the SWA deal is certainly better for the pilot group than the RAH alternative in terms of their financial and long-term future.

I hope we can break the trend that has been ruining this profession by instead implementing a fair seniority integration in an amicable fashion.

 

[FR8dognit]

You guys need to really be harping your union to go after a staple, nothing more. Don't mess up a great opportunity. Maybe put a fence around the FOs in the event WN opens a DEN base. If your not familiar with how we get paid...educate yourself...it is 1000X better than how any other place does it. You can do so well and retain a wonderful QOL in the process. These last 4 yrs there have been maybe 2 instances in which I was unable to either trade or ELITT the days off I had to have.

Good luck...you guys and gals are a class act and deserve better than what you've been dealt.

 

[mvedepo]

I've got an idea: From now on when anyone wants to bring up the SWA/ATA deal and compare it to the SWA/F9 deal, they must get a note from their lawyer that confirms they have been briefed and understand that there are almost no similarities in the two scenerios.

You're right. There isn't a single similarity is there. SWA isn't interested in eliminating competition in Denver.

 

[mhermann596]

I've got an idea: From now on when anyone wants to bring up the SWA/ATA deal and compare it to the SWA/F9 deal, they must get a note from their lawyer that confirms they have been briefed and understand that there are almost no similarities in the two scenerios. Good? Ok.

No similarities? Lets compare.

SWA wanted gates and to eliminate competition in Midway.
SWA wants gates and to eliminate competition in Denver.

In 2005 ATA was going to be bought by another carrier (America West) and the competition would have continued. SWA found a way to leverage Boeing and kill the deal. After that the came in with the winning bid for ATA in 2005. At that point they put their man John Dennison (former SWA CFO) in charge of ATA and slowly transfered ATA gates and routes to SWA, but none of the crews. Once they got what they wanted they sold ATA to a vulture fund but Dennison remained at the helm and the airline slowly died. then in 2008 when nothing was left SWA came in and bought ATA back and took what was left that they wanted.
Now SWA wants to prevent another carrier from keeping the competition alive in Denver.

But on the other hand ATA was Boeing and Frontier is Airbus. So I guess your right there are no similarities between the airlines.

 

[HalinTexas]

Here's most of the facts. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Airlines

 

[USMC319]

Here's most of the facts. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Airlines

I feel for you ATA guys. I always liked your airline and it was a shame it went out of business, however, your dealings at SWA were at a much different part of the BK process than the phase Frontier is currently in.

Frontier chose to file BK due to the credit card processor demanding 100% holdback due to the failure of carriers such as ATA and Aloha. (In hindsight they would have probably had to file anyway last summer due to full exposure to $147/bbl oil). In any event, they have successfully reorganized and have become a super efficient operation with a cult-like following of loyal customers. They are profitable both from an operating standpoint and on a net basis. Being in bankruptcy (for them) at this point is expensive and provides no other benefit.

So at this juncture F9 is seeking a plan sponsor or "exit financing" (very much different than ther ATA scenerio). In a normal credit environment F9 would attract investment grade capital to achieve this goal, unfortunately for them, there isn't any. RAH has provided an offer to fund this exit plan. BK allows for better offers to be considered before approving the exit plan.

Now enters SWA. They (SWA) do want to eliminate a competitor and want to prevent a tough competitor from becoming very healthy with a strong balance sheet. They look at F9 and see themselves 20 years ago and it probably scares them a bit, so why not nip it in the bud and just buy them. Remember, they didn't buy ATA nor did they bid on them in a similar process. The law requires that if a company buys more than 50 percent of the company they are required to take the labor. Its all or nothing. If not, Frontier will exit and compete vigorously with the other offer that is on the table. So, I see how you ATA guys can draw parallels but there really aren't any in a true business sense.

 

[RJones]

This is all about market share, nothing more.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

After my last furlough I have never really worried about getting a captain bid anywhere and have resigned myself to being a professional gear monkey for the majority of my career.

I can relate to your past, brother. I've lived through the "hard knocks" of an aviation career.

However, to cast yourself as a "gear monkey" is a bit self flagellating. I would assume that at F9 you guys trade off legs? If so, who raises the landing gear when it is your leg ?

But, in the interest of fairness, we just had one of the Chicago Reps using our union publication, chastise the entire pilot group for voting down our TA. He also took the time to refer to FO's as "Co-stars".

"Gear monkey"..."Co-star"... Which one really is more professional ?

 

[mvedepo]

The law requires that if a company buys more than 50 percent of the company they are required to take the labor. Its all or nothing. If not, Frontier will exit and compete vigorously with the other offer that is on the table. So, I see how you ATA guys can draw parallels but there really aren't any in a true business sense.

So whats to prevent SWA from buying F9, operating them as a seperate entity and shut said separate entity down? Thats the goal here. Eliminating Frontier as a competitor. It really wouldn't make good business sense to staple 600 pay protected pilots to the bottom of the seniority list when then could just hire the F9 guys as new hires as the demand for pilots is needed?

 

[Whataburger]

Aren't Republic pilots also working on their seniority integration, etc, etc with Frontier? Yall's speculation is like watching a Private Pilot on CNN talk about an airline crash.

In othe news, I've enjoyed the Frontier crews that used to visit Mr. C's in Chicago. Good folks.

 

[starchkr]

So whats to prevent SWA from buying F9, operating them as a seperate entity and shut said separate entity down? Thats the goal here. Eliminating Frontier as a competitor. It really wouldn't make good business sense to staple 600 pay protected pilots to the bottom of the seniority list when then could just hire the F9 guys as new hires as the demand for pilots is needed?

That is a viable option that they possess. I don't think they would do that, but they have every right to in that case. SWA wants international flying, and they are prohibited from doing that, as of right now. They would gain the benefit of international ability by taking on F9 and running them if for nothing else but to Canada and Mexico and points south out of there numerous hubs. This would eliminate the WestJet and Volaris fiasco that has been fought by the pilots and would bring all "SWA" flying in-house. They did say they would replace the busses with 73's, now if they would retain Animal tails no-one knows, but it would look much better than painting them all purple.

 

[learherkjay]

Come on starchkr - it's CANYON BLUE - geesh...

 

[arjayeffo]

A Frontier Pilot

Some people here think that Allegheny+McCaskill will provide us with a fair and equitable integration under the law. I have far less than 100% faith that this is the case. As a 3 1/2 year guy, yet still in the bottom sixth of the entire list, even a pay protected staple reaps a whirlwind for me. And the prosepct of some sort of DEN base protection is even better.
I have nothing but the highest respect for the SWAPA pilots and understand that they will fight to protect what they have earned and created, just as we are trying to do. If only the outcome of all of this were up to us. We could all meet at Mr. C's and have this thing hashed out. But its not. Its up to Management and a judge named Drain. And they share the common primary goal of doing whats best for the bottom line. This, along with past Southwest acquisitions, is why my distrust of the deal is so strong, not any ounce of disrespect for fellow pilots. The most regrettable actions in our profession these days is the misdirected hostility of pilot to pilot anger. How often does any of the shyte that we put up with have roots in a decision a fellow pilot made?
The prospect of survivng these times and coming out on the other side as a part of an airline like Southwest seems almost too good to be true. And if it seems too good to be true, it almost always is. Absent some binding agreement betwen our unions this week, or some final 'pro-labor' slant by Drain as part of the deal, I think my days are seriously numbered.

 

[Porch]

Aren't Republic pilots also working on their seniority integration, etc, etc with Frontier? Yall's speculation is like watching a Private Pilot on CNN talk about an airline crash.

In othe news, I've enjoyed the Frontier crews that used to visit Mr. C's in Chicago. Good folks.

Oh yeah, Mr C's... where the drinks are heavy and the chicks are loose. Good times there for sure!